Lascala amp requirements?

[jimjimbo]

On 12/17/2020 at 6:23 PM, THomas Chippie said:

RE;  La Scala 

 

Does Klipsch have recommended amp power levels for maximum performance.  I would like to have lots of "ooomph" (presence) at low volumes.

My little mind tells me more (very clean), the better.

 

Thank you........Tom    

Welcome to the forum Tom.

 

What do you consider low volume?  To me, lots of "ooomph" and low volume don't necessarily go together.....I also believe that your room (size, configuration, acoustics) and your choice of music make a difference.  I do have a bit of experience with La Scalas.....

[henry4841]

The sweet spot for me in a SET, single ended tube amp, is 5 watts. Granted the bass will not be outstanding but plenty good enough for me. While the bass is compromised compared to PP or SS amps the mids and highs can be outstanding depending on design. SS for me is 25 watts or more. Need some extra because of the way they clip. Certainly more will not hurt but at a certain spot wasted money. 

[Marvel]

On 2/18/2017 at 6:48 AM, pauln said:

85dB is about the standard level agreed around the world for monitoring during engineering of recordings in studios throughout the decades of record production. This is the level at which the engineer established the tonal balance and many other things

 

I know this is from an old thread, but this directly relates to the fletcher-munson curve and engineers doing mixes. Al K. wanted to argue with me that 'no one is going to tell me how loud to listen', etc. The idea is, given a good playback system, the bass, midrange, treble will be fairly balanced as the engineers mix it if played at an avg 85db level. If played at a much lower level, your bass would drop off, etc. The 85db level gives you more latitude above and below for a similar balance.

 

It also means the engineers aren't going deaf yet... 🙄

[baron167]

 
I know this is from an old thread, but this directly relates to the fletcher-munson curve and engineers doing mixes. Al K. wanted to argue with me that 'no one is going to tell me how loud to listen', etc. The idea is, given a good playback system, the bass, midrange, treble will be fairly balanced as the engineers mix it if played at an avg 85db level. If played at a much lower level, your bass would drop off, etc. The 85db level gives you more latitude above and below for a similar balance.
 
It also means the engineers aren't going deaf yet... [emoji849]

Apparently all old amps are crap and everyone should buy new class D micro amps to power the Jubilees we all need.


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[Fattner]

My mac mc275 tube amp plays it very life like ..... That comb with the LaScalas is unbelievable ,!!

[Marvel]

I used 2a3 SET amp and switch to some modified Crown D-45 SS amps. They are both very, very good with my LS.

[96lt1ss]

I was always taught that the amp should be 150% of the speaker rating (Not Peak watts) so you don't make it work so hard to drive the speakers. My LaScala's are powered by a Carver TFM-25 putting out 225watts per channel @ 8 ohm load. Can't even imagine trying to drive them with 25-50 watts of power. 

 

[OO1]

On 12/19/2020 at 11:39 PM, Fattner said:

My mac mc275 tube amp plays it very life like ..... That comb with the LaScalas is unbelievable ,!!

what a Beauty of an Amplifier ----and still in Production in it's 6th revision  for 60 years -

 

[svberger]

On 1/4/2021 at 1:57 PM, 96lt1ss said:

I was always taught that the amp should be 150% of the speaker rating (Not Peak watts) so you don't make it work so hard to drive the speakers. My LaScala's are powered by a Carver TFM-25 putting out 225watts per channel @ 8 ohm load. Can't even imagine trying to drive them with 25-50 watts of power. 

 

.

[Rolox]

I've used a Trends TA10.1 mini class D amplifier full range with LaScala for a couple years. 6 clean watts per channel and we used to throw parties every weekend (those were the days). Never did I run the tiny amp into distortion.

Now I still use that tiny amp but, since I'm actively bi-amping, there's another class D amp (60watts / channel) on the bass horns. 

Just for laughs, you might want to buy one of those tiny class D marvels (from brands such as Topping, Aiyma, SMSL...) just to try. No it won't beat some expensive tubes, but seeing an amp the size of two cigarettes packs power big speakers like LaScala to deafening levels is a grin inducing moment, and you might even find the ratio between sound quality / reduced floorprint / ridiculously low current draw / zero produced heat / signal to noise ratio / ridiculously low price to be extremely favorable. They usually respond well to some internal components upgrade (such as coupling / decoupling caps etc) and the 12V versions love a very silent linear PSU to replace the  laptop-style SMPS.

Anyways, it's fun to try!

[KT88]

On 2/5/2022 at 12:14 AM, svberger said:

.

It depends in my view more on the stability and current delivery of the amp. I run my Lascalas for years in 23 years ago with Quad II mono tube amps. Only 15 watt per amp but with a huge PSU, a fine OT, KT66 (or for you American similar 6L6GC in push pull mode triode circuit and developed to drive ESL57 which is a not easy load over the freq spectrum. These amps were so full of „torque“ it is not to compare with some SET amp where it is often by chance if it works with a certain speaker.

 

Even if a MC 2xx amp is mostly a pentode circuit think of the Quad II like two 15 watts Mcintosh monos soundwise with huge stability.

Then, in the next step one can calculate that it will all work fine regarding the sensitivity of the Lascala.

[KT88]

On 2/5/2022 at 12:14 AM, svberger said:

.

Edited February 12, 2022 by KT88
double post

[Pstores]

Take a look at the Atma-Sphere S30….. Is sounds pretty nice on the LaScala’s

[svberger]

On 2/4/2022 at 3:14 PM, svberger said:

.

These "30" watts sound perfect with my '77 LS's

 

 

[captainbeefheart]

You can get away with flea amps as La Scala's are very efficient, it all depends on your room and listening requirements. Although not as difficult a load bass wise compared to a Cornwall, Heresy, Forte etc.. many SET amps may come up short for control and power but it really depends on the circuit. I'd say if you have a SET amp with either high enough load impedance for better damping or better some global feedback it will work quite well, so again it comes down to the actual circuit and good design. Contrary to what people think you can actually have a SET amplifier with damping factor of solid state, that's the magic of negative output impedance from some circuit trickery.

 

Overall they are an average speaker to drive, you can get away with more amp options vs the other speakers I mentioned but a good performing amplifier is always best in my book and not just 'good enough'.

[KT88]

10 minutes ago, captainbeefheart said:

You can get away with flea amps as La Scala's are very efficient, it all depends on your room and listening requirements. Although not as difficult a load bass wise compared to a Cornwall, Heresy, Forte etc.. many SET amps may come up short for control and power but it really depends on the circuit. I'd say if you have a SET amp with either high enough load impedance for better damping or better some global feedback it will work quite well, so again it comes down to the actual circuit and good design. Contrary to what people think you can actually have a SET amplifier with damping factor of solid state, that's the magic of negative output impedance from some circuit trickery.

 

Overall they are an average speaker to drive, you can get away with more amp options vs the other speakers I mentioned but a good performing amplifier is always best in my book and not just 'good enough'.

 

I must admit that I had not thought that a SET with negative feedback can run much more stable but I believe it is now. I have an Audion Silvernight 300B since 1994 and it has no negative feedback. It is dependent on the loudspeaker impedance accordingly. Perhaps I have generalized my impression too much from this experience. 

 

I would love to hear such an amp with negative feedback SET. Because based on the efficiency of the Lascala, 5 watt should be sufficient for the vast majority of music situations in the living room, and with negative feedback the amp would be a speaker impedance independent supply of voltage.

Another aspect why people might think that they need e.g. a 150 watt amp when their speakers are rated at e.g. 100 watt. The 100 watt rating says nothing more than the power at which the components burn out. The following is not scientific at all, it is the hypothesis of an everyday understanding.

We all remember the time when we had light bulbs with tungsten filament. If you put a 40 watt bulb in the lamp, the light was weaker than if you put a 100 watt bulb in the same lamp. So you think that a 100 watt bulb converts more energy. This is correct as far as it goes. But transferred to our hi-fi world one could think that if a 100 watt bulb needs corresponding energy from the mains to shine brightly, so would a loudspeaker with 100 watt power handling require a corresponding energy supply. I know that sounds a bit crazy but it may be that many people were brought up in this view and transfer this understanding to a loudspeaker.

To stay with the analogy, a Lascala is more like a modern LED bulb that produces more brightness with much less power. The only difference is that the Lascala burns out at 100 watts but the LED lamp already burns out at e.g. 15 watts when it is designed for 10 watts. But this would not happen because the 10 watt LED bulb only "takes" from the mains what it needs. The Lascala on the other hand would burn out if fed with too much power.
I hope this example was not completely wrong from the point of view of our real technically educated members.

[Marvel]

29 minutes ago, KT88 said:

But this would not happen because the 10 watt LED bulb only "takes" from the mains what it needs. The Lascala on the other hand would burn out if fed with too much power.
I hope this example was not completely wrong from the point of view of our real technically educated members.

All LEDs have a current limiting resistor in their circuit. A person can have too much voltage, to where the resistor can't limit enough and the LED will blow up like a firecracker. But I like the explanation of how people think of it. (and for all of those too bright blue LEDs, if you can increase the resistor value, you can make it not as bright)

[KT88]

12 minutes ago, Marvel said:

All LEDs have a current limiting resistor in their circuit. A person can have too much voltage, to where the resistor can't limit enough and the LED will blow up like a firecracker. But I like the explanation of how people think of it. (and for all of those too bright blue LEDs, if you can increase the resistor value, you can make it not as bright)

😱Thanks for the explanation, I have not thought about a protecting resistor in a LED bulb.

[captainbeefheart]

59 minutes ago, KT88 said:

I would love to hear such an amp with negative feedback SET.

 

That's what most people would think is the trick but that's not it. I incorporate positive feedback in some of my amplifiers that would bring a SET amplifier output impedance of maybe ~1 ohm and a damping factor of ~5 to an output impedance of .08 ohms and a damping factor >100. So solid state like damping but the finesse of a SET.

 

The SET niche is a small one and typically builders like to copy old designs and use fancy boutique parts to try and improve the sound the wrong way instead of going back to the drawing board and changing the circuitry to improve some of the shortcomings of the topology. I am all for quality transformers and that's where most of the money should be invested into but they can only bring you so far since they are just impedance converters.