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Got the Jubilee's, First time using active crossover, very lost!


AaronB123

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On 2/13/2017 at 8:42 PM, AaronB123 said:

I got the Jubilee's today, have them all hoked up and everything but I am extremely lost as to how to set up the active crossover. I got the Xilica XP-2040 because of very high praises from Chris A as well as amazing reviews on the internet. I have no idea how to set the crossovers though and I don't wanna risk damaging anything, I haven't even had a chance to listen to them yet! 

 

Any help would be hugely appreciated! 

Just a note on this:

 

Yesterday, Aaron and I achieved extremely good settings for the K-691 compression driver version of the two-way Jubilee, and by comments back to me he is extremely pleased with the results.  The settings we developed achieve ±1.5 dB flatness from 200-15000 Hz (psychoacoustic smoothing) and ±3 dB from 40-200 Hz (excluding sparse room modes).  It takes 5 PEQs for each bass bin channel and 6 PEQs for each compression driver channel to achieve this performance.

 

If anyone needs support with either these using the settings we generated for this configuration, or with generating other horn/driver settings using a digital crossover, REW freeware and a calibration microphone, please don't hesitate to ask. This is done remotely using email to transfer the REW measurements and resulting digital crossover settings.

 

If you are willing to install REW freeware, a microphone, and a connection to your preamp's inputs from your computer (via digital bus or soundcard output), you can use these to find digital crossover settings of high quality in-room for your loudspeakers.  This includes bi-amping, tri-amping, or even mono-amping if still using the internal passive crossovers.

 

Chris

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Yup I was actually just coming to post my results as well. I cannot thank @Chris A enough he completely went out of his way to help me. It sounds absolutely phenominal, now this is the sound I've been looking for this whole time. It's got the magic and detail of the K-horns with the huge soundstage I was looking for! Anyone else that is looking for help with this I highly suggest taking Chris up on his offer, he's a pure genius! 

 

Lol Now i'm actually considering selling the K-horns because of how good these sound! 

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4 hours ago, AaronB123 said:

Yup I was actually just coming to post my results as well. I cannot thank @Chris A enough he completely went out of his way to help me. It sounds absolutely phenominal, now this is the sound I've been looking for this whole time. It's got the magic and detail of the K-horns with the huge soundstage I was looking for! Anyone else that is looking for help with this I highly suggest taking Chris up on his offer, he's a pure genius! 

 

Lol Now i'm actually considering selling the K-horns because of how good these sound! 

He IS the MAN for tuning.

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On 2/15/2017 at 8:49 PM, Speed said:

I've been looking and the only drivers offered are, the K-69A and the BNC 75DE. ( From Cinequip, in Portland OR. ) What is the K-691 ? I would prefer to avoid titanium... 

 

The HF horn actually comes stock with the K-1132.  K-69's aren't available anymore but K-691's are, they are a modified B&C DE-75, same thing that's in the KI-396-SMA-ii and are very smooth and non-fatiguing.  It's not a stock DE-75.  

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On 2/14/2017 at 5:37 PM, Chris A said:

I bought them new from a third party in 2009.  They weren't cheap then and that model (TD-4002) has since been discontinued by TAD due to the price rise and unavailability of source Neodymium magnet material.  Most people would use the TD-4001s (Alnico magnets at 2x the overall weight of the 4002s) nowadays if they were looking to buy new. 

 

From time to time, there are used TD-4002s that come up on the market, but I'd be careful.  Many of these used drivers were in commercial applications where they were heavily driven and might have diaphragm damage or partially annealed magnets.

 

Chris

 

I believe I asked this another thread, are there any K-402 owners that are running TD-4001?

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1 hour ago, jazzmessengers said:

 

I believe I asked this another thread, are there any K-402 owners that are running TD-4001?

I know they are not 402's but I ran TD-4001's in the 3-way Jube Clones I built with Fastlane Eliptrac 400's. There is just really something magical about the 4001's. I honestly do not think there is anything else quite like them. Well, I imagine the 4003's are pretty damn special. I miss my TAD's!

DSCN1894.JPG

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5 hours ago, jazzmessengers said:

 

I believe I asked this another thread, are there any K-402 owners that are running TD-4001?

I personally don't know of any, unfortunately.  I think the reason is their cost and perhaps weight (2x heavier than the 4002), not their performance. 

 

Also with so many used 4002s that have floated by over the past couple of years, this has the effect of suppressing 4001 sales.  I would assume that the EQ settings required for the 4001 would be extremely close to those required for the 4002, as has been mentioned elsewhere.

 

Chris

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3 hours ago, Chris A said:

I personally don't know of any, unfortunately.  I think the reason is their cost and perhaps weight (2x heavier than the 4002), not their performance. 

 

Also with so many used 4002s that have floated by over the past couple of years, this has the effect of suppressing 4001 sales.  I would assume that the EQ settings required for the 4001 would be extremely close to those required for the 4002, as has been mentioned elsewhere.

 

Chris

 

7 hours ago, jorjen said:

I know they are not 402's but I ran TD-4001's in the 3-way Jube Clones I built with Fastlane Eliptrac 400's. There is just really something magical about the 4001's. I honestly do not think there is anything else quite like them. Well, I imagine the 4003's are pretty damn special. I miss my TAD's!

DSCN1894.JPG

 

Thanks, I was going to give them a try, but it's always nice to hear if people had real world experience. I recently heard laurellhill's Jubilee setup as mentioned in the post here. Truly outstanding speakers that are now at the very top of my list of considerations. Active crossover version.

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48 minutes ago, Zim. said:

Prior to the k691 badging, were the BNC75s as shipped on the 402 and 501s modified as well or did the modification occur at the time of rebadging?

 

No clue.  I suspect the modified version is relatively new.  

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It is my understanding that the modification resulted in a new part number, as was Klipsch practice with the K-1132 vs. the K-1133. 

 

I presume that the difference is found in the phase plug, which is probably modified to get better HF performance in a manner similar to the 1132/1133.  Perhaps Roy could illuminate.

 

The REW measurements of the K-691 still show a 14 kHz titanium diaphragm breakup mode like the K-69-A, but it appears to be much lessened in severity.  Below you will see the spectrogram and the impulse response, both visually improved over the K-69-A performance.  The B&C DE75 (that is being called the "BNC-75", which is an apparently incorrect designation) as modified by Klipsch here, has always been a better sounding driver IMHE:

 

58a70d37d9f80_K-691JubileeBassBinSpectrogram.png.c558d9ddd1ed297e1097c4bb55d73a02.png

 

58a70e469a010_K-691andJubileebassbinimpulseresponse.png.42943b1d2b0cac0544d18fe23337c054.png

 

Note that the SPL here is apparently not calibrated.  I would assume that this measurement is in the 80-90 dBSPL range.

 

Chris

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Yes, I wasn't referring to your use of the identifier.  I've seen the same thing from Spencer Chao and Roy.  I only intended to clear up the apparent misunderstanding if someone was intending to look up the B&C driver datasheet.

 

The B&C DE75 was previously identified as the "K-69" (i.e., without the "-A" designator).  I spent one morning listening to it rather than the "-A' as was thought.  I was pretty much amazed by the difference in sound--for less than $70(US) increase in the price of the driver. 

 

The measurements that I posted above seem to show the biggest differences between the P.Audio (Thai) driver and the B&C (Italian) driver, especially the impulse response.  The P.Audio driver rings at 13.7 kHz much longer (i.e., that diaphragm breakup mode is less damped) and at a higher amplitude than the B&C driver.

 

However, I will say that both drivers are still very good performers.  I still use the K-69-A (P.Audio) in my center K-402-MEH.  It's very good for an $169(US) compression driver.  Only big cymbal transients give it away.

 

Chris

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3 minutes ago, AaronB123 said:

LOL ya I'm just playing I didn't order them I am trying to but the guy hasn't answered in days. Maybe he already sold them. 

Makes me feel a lil better. Don't want to be accused of instigating an impulse purchase. Oh and btw @JustAuBy is a member here....oops! :ph34r:

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