Got the Jubilee's, First time using active crossover, very lost!

[AaronB123]

2 minutes ago, Tasdom said:

Makes me feel a lil better. Don't want to be accused of instigating an impulse purchase. Oh and btw @JustAuBy is a member here....oops!

Oh wow, thank you that's very good to know. That actually makes me much more confident in the purchase. I just hope they are still available. It looks like those are pretty hard to find. 

[dirtmudd]

Aaron now I'm lost on your journey to jubilees.. when you have some time to post your thoughts . on your klipsch progression start to finish .. first klipsch speakers and how each one sounded ..

 

[AaronB123]

1 minute ago, dirtmudd said:

Aaron now I'm lost on your journey to jubilees.. when you have some time to post your thoughts . on your klipsch progression start to finish .. first klipsch speakers and how each one sounded ..

 

Well, lets just say it all started when I was younger and first heard a pair of Klipsch Pro media 2.1's. Before buying those I had just wasted money on a pair of Bose Mediamates. (this was when I still lived at home with my parents and couldn't have a huge sound system like I do now. Well when I first hooked up the Bose mediamates and listened to them my heart dropped, I was soo dissapointed. I packaged them up right on the spot and sent them back. I did tons of research and eventually landed on the Pro Media's. When I heard them I was absolutely blown away. 

 

Years later when I was ready to build my own theater I remembered that sound of those Pro Media's and just kept thinking if there little computer speakers can sound that good I can't imagine how there big speakers must sound. I looked on Craigslist and found a pair of Chorus's, bought them, hooked them up and was pretty much moved to tears by what I was hearing. Before buying those I actually went to bestbuy though just to hear what they had and of course the guy told me to stay away from Klipsch and tried to push some B&W and Martin Logan and all this stuff on me. Honestly I auditioned it, and really was not impressed. After hearing the Chorus's I thanked God that I stuck to my guns and bought them instead of anything at best buy. 

 

That was when I joined the forum and posted my pictures of the Chorus's and and started really learning more about the brand. After seeing all the other heritage gear they had to offer I wanted to try something even higher up on the food chain, so I considered K-horns but knew I didn't have perfect corners so I settled upon La Scala's, found a beautiful pair and absolutely loved them. I found them to have an even bigger soundstage than the chorus's and they seem to play louder with less effort. I had those for a while and of course was extremely happy with them (still am as I am still using one as a center). By this time I really wanted to try the K-horns and had heard how you can build false walls if you don't have perfect corners but I also noticed that the 70th anniversary ones come with closed backs so I ended up purchasing those. 

 

I do love the K-horns don't get me wrong but I was a little dissapointed with the soundstage, I thought it would be bigger. I feel the La Scala has a bigger soundstage but this could be due to my room, I've heard they really do need a LOT of space to get the full potential. All was not lost with the K-horns though, there pro's are they have a tremendous amount of detail and an extremely refined sound with much more bass than the La Scala's. This brings me to the final speaker that I had purchased which was the Jubilee. After tons of research and reading I decided this was the speaker I had to have! I ordered a pair, and 2 weeks later they were sitting in my house and let me tell you these are the ones I have been looking for. They've got the pure detail and refinement of the K-horn with the monster soundstage I was looking for, and they don't require corner placement so that right there was a win. I personally think they also look just pure badass but I have heard some say they think they are ugly. 

 

During my research with the Jubilee's I read one thing that basically sealed the deal which was that the jubilee started out as something PWK was working on as a Klipschorn 2 but he felt the product was so much better than the K-horn that it deserved a whole new name. It's funny because when I was discussing purchasing K-horns on this forum many people told me since I was spending so much money I should just buy Jubilee's but unfortunately I just dismissed the thought and went with K-horns instead but it's all good, you live and you learn. 

 

Well, that's my speaker story and just a little disclaimer I did love every Klipsch speaker I bought and still have pretty much all of them. When I kept moving up the Heritage chain it was in no way that I was not satisfied, it was more like I just wanted to see how much better it could possibly get from here, and not to mention Klipsch speakers are a work of art and look like fine furniture in ones home. 

 

[Marvel]

13 hours ago, Chris A said:

Yes, I wasn't referring to your use of the identifier.  I've seen the same thing from Spencer Chao and Roy.  I only intended to clear up the apparent misunderstanding if someone was intending to look up the B&C driver datasheet.

 

The B&C DE75 was previously identified as the "K-69" (i.e., without the "-A" designator).  I spent one morning listening to it rather than the "-A' as was thought.  I was pretty much amazed by the difference in sound--for less than $70(US) increase in the price of the driver. 

 

The measurements that I posted above seem to show the biggest differences between the P.Audio (Thai) driver and the B&C (Italian) driver, especially the impulse response.  The P.Audio driver rings at 13.7 kHz much longer (i.e., that diaphragm breakup mode is less damped) and at a higher amplitude than the B&C driver.

 

However, I will say that both drivers are still very good performers.  I still use the K-69-A (P.Audio) in my center K-402-MEH.  It's very good for an $169(US) compression driver.  Only big cymbal transients give it away.

 

Chris

 

$169 will get you the newer PAudio BMD750II, which djk says is better than the original.

 

Bruce

[jazzmessengers]

1 hour ago, AaronB123 said:

Oh wow, thank you that's very good to know. That actually makes me much more confident in the purchase. I just hope they are still available. It looks like those are pretty hard to find. 

In the off chance they're sold I would trust Chris A that the TD-4001 will work fine. Those are IME much easier to come by, I used to see multiple pairs listed on Ebay nearly every week. You just need to do ask the right questions and make sure you're getting a non-abused pair. Like one other person posted, they are incredible sounding compression drivers.

[HPower]

2 hours ago, AaronB123 said:

LOL ya I'm just playing I didn't order them I am trying to but the guy hasn't answered in days. Maybe he already sold them. 

 

I also contacted JustAuBy just as his ad was posted and have not heard a word back.

A day or so after I realized he was a board bro here, so I PM'd him via the board, same thing with no response.

 

I have my doubts in regards to his "scruples"... a ping back with a sold or still available would have been nice. 

[AaronB123]

9 hours ago, HPower said:

 

I also contacted JustAuBy just as his ad was posted and have not heard a word back.

A day or so after I realized he was a board bro here, so I PM'd him via the board, same thing with no response.

 

I have my doubts in regards to his "scruples"... a ping back with a sold or still available would have been nice. 

I actually just heard back from him, they are sold 

[HPower]

Thanks for the update Aaron... I kind of figured that might be the case.

 

I finally fired up my DIY Jubs last night thanks to some very good help from Chris.

 

I will try to muck my way through the REW software this weekend and "hopefully" get things tuned up as well as it sounds like you have.

Mine are making music, but they still need to be dialed in.

 

For CD, I have the Faital HF-200.

[Travis In Austin]

35 minutes ago, AaronB123 said:

I actually just heard back from him, they are sold 

For the best, take your time finding what you want.  Like @Chris A said, you have to be weary of where Pro drivers come from. 

 

Yours came with the K-691, an upgraded driver, I would get some time in with those and when you see another pair come up do like you did and get some input from here on them.

 

Are you liking the active crossovers so far?

 

@Chris A and others can tell you how to biamp you Khorns and add time delay on your Khorns to check that out when you have noting to do one afternoon.

 

Have you messed around, using the switches they typically have, listening to just the HF, or LF, and adding in the other.  It's pretty amazing how the whole thing has to fit together.

 

Travis

 

 

[Chris A]

By way of Khorn tri-amping performance--extrapolating from my center tri-amped Belle experience--I can say the following about expected Khorn tri-amping effects:

 

1) Essentially all of the "nasalness" and closed sound will disappear when you time align the midrange and tweeter with the bass bin. There is a really huge timbre shift toward much more natural/neutral sound.

 

2) You will also be able to hear pianos and women's vocals much more naturally.  Richard Heyser in his 1986 Khorn review mentioned these points when testing and listening to stock Khorns: these type of voices are exaggerated and out of proportion (i.e., too large) as compared to other instruments on stock Khorns.

 

3) You will be able to hear micro-details of music that you haven't been able to hear before. This includes hearing the coverage of the midrange horn in a way that you weren't able to do beforehand as you move about the room.

 

4) The tri-amped Khorn sound image will be stable, defined, focused and localized, i.e., relative to a K-402 and 2" compression driver.  You will still have a sweet spot in the room from where to listen for best imaging...unlike the Jubilees, which have coverage all over the room wherever you're sitting or standing.

 

[Considering all the above is available without changing the horns/drivers of the Khorns, then tri-amping and time-aligning your Khorns is your most effective single investment that you can make, i.e., using something like a Xilica XP-4080 crossover and adding two stereo amplifiers of nominal quality.]

 

5) Changes in the midrange horn and tweeter of the Khorn will be very apparent in terms of listening performance, and will improve the size of the preferred listening sweet spot in room (but not nearly to the degree of the K-402/2" compression driver performance). 

 

Chris

[richieb]

Lawyer man is right. Two weeks in on my Jubes and have never owned a speaker that can change character dependent on upstream components than these. These are ruthless when fed inferior signals or put another way they will reveal the sonics of such input, some of which you may not favor. I know many scoff at the thought that wire can effect sound but I'm telling you I went from one hook up wire that ran crossovers to bass bin to horn driver then switched to another set and Knew something was different, something I didn't like. The sound was more fatiguing, more forward, mid bass was too too.  Went back to the original set and the magic was back. This was not psychological, I know what I heard. Give 'me some time and ground yourself with sonics you can relate to, and like before you switch things up. 

[Chris A]

Are you using SETs to power them?

[mike stehr]

He's talking about different sets (types) of wire.

[AaronB123]

1 hour ago, Chris A said:

By way of Khorn tri-amping performance--extrapolating from my center tri-amped Belle experience--I can say the following about expected Khorn tri-amping effects:

 

1) Essentially all of the "nasalness" and closed sound will disappear when you time align the midrange and tweeter with the bass bin. There is a really huge timbre shift toward much more natural/neutral sound.

 

2) You will also be able to hear pianos and women's vocals much more naturally.  Richard Heyser in his 1986 Khorn review mentioned these points when testing and listening to stock Khorns: these type of voices are exaggerated and out of proportion (i.e., too large) as compared to other instruments on stock Khorns.

 

3) You will be able to hear micro-details of music that you haven't been able to hear before. This includes hearing the coverage of the midrange horn in a way that you weren't able to do beforehand as you move about the room.

 

4) The tri-amped Khorn sound image will be stable, defined, focused and localized, i.e., relative to a K-402 and 2" compression driver.  You will still have a sweet spot in the room from where to listen for best imaging...unlike the Jubilees, which have coverage all over the room wherever you're sitting or standing.

 

[Considering all the above is available without changing the horns/drivers of the Khorns, then tri-amping and time-aligning your Khorns is your most effective single investment that you can make, i.e., using something like a Xilica XP-4080 crossover and adding two stereo amplifiers of nominal quality.]

 

5) Changes in the midrange horn and tweeter of the Khorn will be very apparent in terms of listening performance, and will improve the size of the preferred listening sweet spot in room (but not nearly to the degree of the K-402/2" compression driver performance). 

 

Chris

It's amazing that you brought that up about the piano and female vocals because I'm not sure if you remember me saying when I switched to the jub's the higher keys on a piano were definitely not as present as with the K-horns, it's been MUCH improved since our (your) tweaking  but it's still not as exaggerated as it is with the K-horns, when listening to piano on the K-s the higher notes are almost too piercing to take. It's amazing to see that wasn't just something I was imagining and is actually the case. 

 

I don't have any plans to try and bi amp those though or even set them up again any time soon. All my equipment is tied up with the Jub's and hooking those up again would require me moving the Jub's out of my theater room and putting the K's back in which I really don't wanna do. I unfortunately already damaged one of the K-s when moving it. I put them in a little hand truck to move them from one room to the other so I didn't have to push them and when I took the hand truck away the lip got caught on the bottom and tore a piece of wood right off.  It's about an inch in size but I was very upset when I saw that I did that. 

[AaronB123]

2 hours ago, dwilawyer said:

For the best, take your time finding what you want.  Like @Chris A said, you have to be weary of where Pro drivers come from. 

 

Yours came with the K-691, an upgraded driver, I would get some time in with those and when you see another pair come up do like you did and get some input from here on them.

 

Are you liking the active crossovers so far?

 

@Chris A and others can tell you how to biamp you Khorns and add time delay on your Khorns to check that out when you have noting to do one afternoon.

 

Have you messed around, using the switches they typically have, listening to just the HF, or LF, and adding in the other.  It's pretty amazing how the whole thing has to fit together.

 

Travis

 

 

I absolutely LOVE the active crossover, honestly I will never go passive again! I am definitely one that loves customization and I love the fact that I can get these to sound just the way I want. 

[AaronB123]

1 hour ago, richieb said:

Lawyer man is right. Two weeks in on my Jubes and have never owned a speaker that can change character dependent on upstream components than these. These are ruthless when fed inferior signals or put another way they will reveal the sonics of such input, some of which you may not favor. I know many scoff at the thought that wire can effect sound but I'm telling you I went from one hook up wire that ran crossovers to bass bin to horn driver then switched to another set and Knew something was different, something I didn't like. The sound was more fatiguing, more forward, mid bass was too too.  Went back to the original set and the magic was back. This was not psychological, I know what I heard. Give 'me some time and ground yourself with sonics you can relate to, and like before you switch things up. 

I completely agree with you on this! In fact it's funny because when I had to rewire all my speakers because I had my Emotiva switched to a 7 channel I remembered reading that if the speaker wire is at all oxidized all you need to do is cut the part off and strip it to a clean part and it is good as new. So I saw that the wire going to my center was like that and I fixed it. 

 

Not even really giving it any thought, I popped in some Sons of Anarchy that night and WOW what a difference, the dialogue was so much stronger and more detailed. It honestly sounded like I had went to a stronger amp. 

 

This brings me to my next question, what kind of speaker wire do you guys use or recommend? Right now I am using some RCA stuff I picked up at radio shack years ago. 

[Chris A]

15 minutes ago, AaronB123 said:

It's amazing that you brought that up about the piano and female vocals because I'm not sure if you remember me saying when I switched to the jub's the higher keys on a piano were definitely not as present as with the K-horns, it's been MUCH improved since our (your) tweaking  but it's still not as exaggerated as it is with the K-horns, when listening to piano on the K-s the higher notes are almost too piercing to take. It's amazing to see that wasn't just something I was imagining and is actually the case.

 

The Richard Heyser Khorn review: https://community.klipsch.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=36543

 

This is the most informative loudspeaker review that I've read to date. 

 

Chris

[Marvel]

Can of worms...

But I use zip cord. I've also used a two conductor twisted pair with a polyvinyl outside. Whatever has been handy. Nothing I have used has turned green, but all copper will tarnish when exposed to air.

 

Bruce

[richieb]

^^^^^

A no win discussion for sure. With that in mind I know what I heard and hear. And I'm not talking about using snake oil wire that sells for $500/mtr. But once in a while hearing is believing. 

[Chris A]

I only asked if you were using a SET.  Is that a crime?