Protect young people

[DizRotus]

@Confab

Kathy Klages was that coach.  She looks very bad in this, as do her superiors.

[DizRotus]

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/24454137/ex-michigan-state-spartans-gymnastics-coach-kathie-klages-charged-lying-investigators

 

Sorry this had to happen, but glad those responsible are being held accountable.

[-js-]

^ exactly.  well put, forum geezer.  such a sad item we see far too many times in the news.  even once is too many times.  but this many times, by the both of them - between the acts of abuse, and then by the refusal to acknowledge there might be a problem... ugh.  I just don't have words.

[richieb]

 

=== Lets widen this a bit. To the point of protecting the general public from the “win at any and all cost” we see in powerhouse football/basketball institutions. And let’s name it what it is — the human equivalent of cattle fattening pens for the NFL and NBA. Urban Meyer and Zach Smith are but a sampling of the process. I guess the NFL and NBA are like sausage — everyone loves to ingest it, but you do not want to watch it being made — aka the university sport meat grinder. 

[woodsman]

Before you send your children off to college watch this film with them. The faculty is there to protect the image of the school, not the students.

 

http://thehuntinggroundfilm.com/

[Zen Traveler]

3 hours ago, richieb said:

Lets widen this a bit. To the point of protecting the general public from the “win at any and all cost” we see in powerhouse football/basketball institutions. And let’s name it what it is — the human equivalent of cattle fattening pens for the NFL and NBA. Urban Meyer and Zach Smith are but a sampling of the process. I guess the NFL and NBA are like sausage — everyone loves to ingest it, but you do not want to watch it being made — aka the university sport meat grinder. 

Fwiw, it's not just in sports--Imagine when your very soul is (supposedly) on the line: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/19/clergy-sex-abuse-has-cost-catholic-church-3-billion-in-settlements.html

 

[oldtimer]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/illinois-megachurch-paid-dollar325m-to-settle-lawsuits-over-child-sex-abuse-by-church-volunteer/ar-BBLT3hY?ocid=spartanntp

[dtel]

The bad part is this priest may have had nothing to do with any of it ?

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/indiana-priest-beaten-unconscious-allegedly-204937591.html

[Zen Traveler]

1 hour ago, dtel said:

The bad part is this priest may have had nothing to do with any of it ?

It didn't appear so. Not every Christian is a child predator.  

[babadono]

1 hour ago, dtel said:

The bad part is this priest may have had nothing to do with any of it ?

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/indiana-priest-beaten-unconscious-allegedly-204937591.html

Because two wrongs make a right, right?

[dtel]

It's crazy out there, just reading the news I have to think, what is wrong with people. There is just no even slightly reasonable excuse for much of it. 

[Jeff Matthews]

8 hours ago, richieb said:

 

=== Lets widen this a bit. To the point of protecting the general public from the “win at any and all cost” we see in powerhouse football/basketball institutions. And let’s name it what it is — the human equivalent of cattle fattening pens for the NFL and NBA. Urban Meyer and Zach Smith are but a sampling of the process. I guess the NFL and NBA are like sausage — everyone loves to ingest it, but you do not want to watch it being made — aka the university sport meat grinder. 

Well stated.

 

I'd liken it to bank loan officers who fudge loan applications to qualify otherwise unqualified borrowers.  The incentives are all there to make money, and as long as the owners and other stakeholders profit from it and can plausibly deny condoning the behavior, that's what they'll do.  On a more personal level. I had a client who owned a major new auto franchise who once told me a guy like me could never survive in the auto sales business because I'm too honest.  I'd be installing safeguards to prevent thieves from making me money.  Point well-taken.

[oldtimer]

Give yourself a well deserved pat on the back----oh, you just did.

[Jeff Matthews]

6 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

Give yourself a well deserved pat on the back----oh, you just did.

Awe, I was hoping for one from you. 

[oldtimer]

Lmao, you know I'm right there with you.

[Jeff Matthews]

Just now, oldtimer said:

Lmao, you know I'm right there with you.

I love you, man!  

[garyrc]

On 2/15/2017 at 9:42 AM, -js- said:

 I also agree that back in the day, maybe we did not have to worry as much as we should now - not as many threats then as now.  nor anywhere near as much data, information, publicity or attention back then as now.

 

I'll bet it was just as bad, and just as serious, "back in the day," but was not as often reported.  Some recent cases cite incidents 20, 30 or more years in the past, but buried.

 

Kid's peers were not as aware of the possibilities back then, and the victims almost always kept quiet.

 

I realize I was very naive as a kid, and didn't realize that some of the adult-child relationships I observed may have been other than they seemed.

 

As I look back, in an academically good school system, in the '50s and '60s there were:

 

Teachers who behaved seductively toward students, some even in class, at least 6 of them, including 2 who were much beloved by the students as a whole.

 

ROTC officer/teacher who groped each of the boys when measuring for uniforms.  He didn't play favorites.

 

Two incidents in which a bio instructor, in one case, and a visiting scientist, in another, went many places with a favorite student, and behaved as a couple in public -- no touching in the verboten zones, but lots of friendly touching, that seemed out of place and odd.  Mentor or abuser?  Who knows?

 

All, or most, of the above could be classified as sexual abuse today.

 

There was also physical abuse.  Most schools -- including public schools --had a paddle.  One teacher slapped students in class.  One would hit students over the head with an unabridged dictionary -- she controlled the decent, and didn't hit hard, but she could have lost control and caused injury.  As it was, it couldn't have been good for their vertebrae, or their brain crashing -- however softly -- against the interior of the skull.   Friends who went to a parochial school were required to hit their own hands with a ruler, then the teacher would say "harder," then "harder," until they tired of the game.  A friend said he could only hit hard enough by imagining that it was Sister So & So's face  he was hitting.  Miscreants were given a choice between a paddling and several pages of long division.  In higher grades, there were square root problems thrown it.  Nothing like getting the kids to associate math with unpleasantness.  A priest paddled a girl in front of the class, and then had separate assemblies for boys and girls in which he paddled students in front of them, on the auditorium stage.  The boys had to take down their pants.  I don't know about the girls.  There was a famous case in LA, in which a girl was paddled for wearing too short a skirt.  After the paddling was over, the girl turned and slapped the woman who had paddled her.  The student was charged with assault!   Another friend was required to plow his fist into the rough stucco-like wall of the church, a certain number of times, "to show the Church was stronger."  There was blood.  My friend had a different interpretation of this symbolic act than did the school, "an exercise in decreasing respect for self and church."

 

I had to think this over carefully, but I would say that between 1/4 to 1/3 of the teachers committed psychological abuse.  They deliberately verbally abused and/or embarrassed students in front of the class, called them stupid, berated them in public, etc.  One teacher said that any student who had acne by the last day of class would be graded down, since acne was a byproduct of poor physical and mental hygiene.  In Jr. High, one girl had major anger problems, and, as far as I know, got no help for it.  Teachers embarrassed her, and she would blush deep red.  Then she disappeared.   When she came back a year later, she was brought in after the beginning of class, and re-introduced to us.  She blushed.  It soon leaked out what had happened.  She had stabbed her mother.  Everybody soon knew.

 

Most of the above incidents, including some I didn't mention, were man on boy, but there were some incidents of man on girl, woman on boy and woman on girl.

 

 

 

 

 

[oldtimer]

Too much Pink Floyd for you.

[Zen Traveler]

4 hours ago, Jeff Matthews said:

4 hours ago, oldtimer said:

Lmao, you know I'm right there with you.

I love you, man!  

Quality times with friends. I miss you guys and feel conversation would be at a fevered pitch right about now given  years gone past.....To stay on topic it would be hard not to argue for protecting our kids by instilling in them fact from fiction. 

[DizRotus]

Michigan AG indicts former MSU President Lou Anna Simon.  Charged with lying to investigators.