jimjimbo Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Do the Khorns have a fuse? How about the pre/pro and the amp? I would check everything. Since the K-77's don't go half out it sounds like that can be eliminated as a possible cause.That's it!! The cheap non-audiophile fuses!! How could we have been so blind?? I am so happy your dilemma has been solved.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Just now, jimjimbo said: That's it!! The cheap non-audiophile fuses!! How could we have been so blind?? I am so happy your dilemma has been solved.... Have we determined there are non-audiophile fuses? I'm a problem solver by nature and it bugs me when there's a problem with no answer. There are enough knowledgeable and experienced people here that between all of us we should be able to figure this out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 I'll get back to this thread in a few days and let you know the results of fuses, speaker changes and exorcism. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ69 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 9 hours ago, wvu80 said: Have we determined there are non-audiophile fuses? I'm a problem solver by nature and it bugs me when there's a problem with no answer. There are enough knowledgeable and experienced people here that between all of us we should be able to figure this out. Actually that is a good guess. Sometimes a fuse fails but it's not fully visible. The issue is in both channels so that would narrow the fuse location. I'd replace so you can eliminate that issue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatever55 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Just a thought..... Everytime you you touched the connections you made a change. If you are open.... try this one component at a time. Disconnect the connections from the amp and move the amp however you moved it before, slide it, tip it etc. Then reconnect everything the original way. The reason for this is.... there could be a loose or bad connection interenal that gets moved during the connecting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 18 hours ago, wvu80 said: Since the K-77's don't go half out it sounds like that can be eliminated as a possible cause. If they really don't go half out. I understand they usually blow completely out when abused, but always? I've wondered if they can be damaged and put out a scraping sound, or a break up sound, as damaged woofers or extended range speakers sometimes do. How about just a slight, but audible, increase in distortion? I wonder if Klipsch or EV have ever tried overstressing a bunch to see if there are degrees of failure. OTOH, the one time I blew one (with a test signal), it went out completely. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 Rack has been completely disassembled, units moved, re-stacked, re-wired. I am not really sure if it is tweeters or squawkers. When playing with squawkers disconnected I don't think the frequency I hear coming from the tweeters is in the range I hear messed up. I failed to do that test when I had the tweeters out for resistance checks. Fuses: no fuses in speakers as far as I know and they would have to be blown in all three amps I tried (all channels had power) One common (semi-common) denominator is the Oppo 105 as that is the only source I have tried other than TV. I say that with the caveat that I have used CDs, USB external drive, Tidal stream, network stream from my NAS and used coax, optic, RCA and XLR cables. I am a bit light on sources but I can try AppleTV and thru a Sonos Connect. For now the family trip is still on and I will get some temp help at work next week so if the creek don't rise I will sort this out starting Sunday. As an aside I am sorta looking for a used McIntosh MEN220 Room Correction Unit to add once I get the demons removed. I would pay but sure would like to try first. When I get a minute during business hours I am going to contact sources to see availability and return policy if it ain't doing it for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juniper Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 This is so strange, hope you figure it out soon!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Willing to bet the XO's could be at fault... as previously mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 7 minutes ago, Schu said: Willing to bet the XO's could be at fault... as previously mentioned. I am thinking along side you as well, but I can't figure it out logically. This will bug me until it gets resolved. The problem with identifying the XO's as the problem would be that BOTH would have to have blown at the same time to get sibilance in both speakers. The only thing that would cause that would be some kind of surge from the amp. Surely it would not be a surge through the source, and I don't think cables would produce a catastrophic electronic meltdown of components. It also bugs me that he changed the taps from 8 Ohm to 4 Ohm and it produced a temporary cure of the problem. The sibilance then returned for no apparent reason. Could there be a problem in any of the tubes in the pre/out or the amp? That's a random question because I can't figure out anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted March 8, 2017 Author Share Posted March 8, 2017 1 hour ago, wvu80 said: Could there be a problem in any of the tubes in the pre/out or the amp? The C2500 has 3 pairs of identical tubes; one pair for LOMC, one pair for HOMC and one pair for line stage. If/when it comes to that I have "spares" since I don't use phono stages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatever55 Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 15 hours ago, USNRET said: The C2500 has 3 pairs of identical tubes; one pair for LOMC, one pair for HOMC and one pair for line stage. If/when it comes to that I have "spares" since I don't use phono stages. I had a C220 that had a horrible amount of noise in the phono stage. After I replaced the factory Chinese tubes it was quite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrown0678 Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 K77 aren't blown, but that's most likely where your problem lies . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted March 9, 2017 Author Share Posted March 9, 2017 I have the following in a Belle (single of each) that I could use for troubleshooting if they would work in the KHorn with AK-5 . I will assume the Beyma wouldn't mount to the motorboard but could be placed on top. Question is would the Crossover work with stock drivers and would tweeter work with Dean's crossover for testing? Beyma CP25 tweeter DeanG SuperX crossover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Mike, PM sent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted March 12, 2017 Author Share Posted March 12, 2017 So before I post my reading what should the woofer resistance be (disconnected from net of course).? I found it stated as "less than 4 ohms" I have 3.4 - 3.6 and varying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted March 12, 2017 Author Share Posted March 12, 2017 Is R5 supposed to be missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stump Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 31 minutes ago, USNRET said: So before I post my reading what should the woofer resistance be (disconnected from net of course).? I found it stated as "less than 4 ohms" I have 3.4 - 3.6 and varying Speakers are generally rated at nominal impedance, so those numbers are fine. I don't recall ever having any speaker measure exactly what was on the label. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted March 12, 2017 Author Share Posted March 12, 2017 Rolled the Belle in to replace the right KHorn; Belle was much better sounding. I took the right speaker down and inspected everything I could based on everyone's input (yours too Quiet Hollow). The only thing I saw suspect was the crossover missing a component. I don't know if that is actually missing or was supposed to be blank (see 2 posts up). I connected the woofer to the LF in terminals (removing the originals going to crossover) and installed the DeanG SUperX and whaa laa. The shrill is gone and the speaker is full bodied and smooth thru out the frequency range. Now I need crossovers since I stole this one from my Belle. yes, factory crossover totally taken out electrically from speaker. I just needed a way to feed the woofer. Ffor testing I didn't want to go thru a total re-wire and mounting of test crossover in the bass bin. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 . I've just been reading through this thread and trying to make sense of all that you have been reporting. The sound was great until the Mc275. Then when you put everything back like before the Mc275 was tried the sound was still not good. My question has to be why? I have a very hard time believing that the AK5 networks or anything else in the speakers are the problem since both would have to have failed exactly the same. The Mc275 doesn't have enough power to damage the networks under any normal use and any driver damage would be permanent and swapping networks wouldn't fix that. I believe you have to solve the original question of why you felt things were fine until the Mc275 was installed and especially then answer the question of why you were unable to return to the sound you had before with the original setup (before the Mc275) which you reported was good. Sorry you have been struggling with this issue but swapping in the DeanG network doesn't explain how you originally had good sound with the stock AK5/Klipschorns. miketn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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