wvu80 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 You didn't find the problem Mike but it sounds like you found the solution. It's like going to the doctor with a stomach ache and he says "I don't know what you have but take these pills and you'll feel better." Do we now need to diagnose why your MLP has moved back 3 1/2 feet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 21 hours ago, Deang said: I would get some flux remover and clean that up - be sure to remove the solder that's laying across the two areas of the board. My AK-4s came on boards, and were soldered point to point. I found several bad solder joints. Just my opinion, but inside the bass bin is the worst place to put a network. Is that a boatload of crap between you and the music or what? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Then why does Roy get so excited when we talk about replacement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted March 16, 2017 Author Share Posted March 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, Schu said: Then why does Roy get so excited when we talk about replacement? Test in chamber vs real life? Me buying Khorns without proper corners as they were designed for? Would proper corners take the nasty highs out; highs, corners, I think not. Personal tastes? Save a buck going from transformers to resistors? Then again the decision to make 'changes' to the speakers to adapt to taste horribly problematic in regard to crossover swaps I do not get. I have purchased new and used Klipsch speakers since 1990 (late bloomer) and go out of my way to promote the brand. One of the reasons I like the brand is the ability to customize to my environment / taste; seems like that I am discouraged from that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 50 minutes ago, Schu said: Then why does Roy get so excited when we talk about replacement? There is a big difference between comparing designs and comparing a working circuit against a circuit that was damaged or built improperly. Circuits behave the way they're built, not how they're designed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Where is Klipsch? They should be in here offering to test, repair, and return these networks to the user. Instead, we have another user willing to dump OEM, and go with third party vendor solutions. Doesn't Klipsch understand the concept of "building up currency" with their customers? This is NOT the "Klipsch" of years past - and neither is this forum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Statement was mainly a response to craigs boat load of crap comment... if its crap, whats it doing in a highend klipsch speaker. Hes not the only one that subscribes to the simplicity idea... but I guess the designer does not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 5 hours ago, NOSValves said: Is that a boatload of crap between you and the music or what? It is. Anechoic flat response doesn't correlate to a subjectively pleasing listening experience. Henry Kloss discovered this over 50 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 10 hours ago, Deang said: Anechoic flat response doesn't correlate to a subjectively pleasing listening experience. 50 cent speaks . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 17 hours ago, Deang said: Where is Klipsch? You know well enough that Klipsch doesn't monitor every thread Dean. Mike also bought the speakers used which means no warranty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Just a thought - but maybe the moderators should be tipping someone off when this kind of thing comes up. Warranty or not, it's top of the line, and the last thing I would want as a business owner is a situation like this. Hey Don. Shut up. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 Ok, this last issue (listening position) is on me. In my haste, lacking the necessary quantity of proper color coded connectors and the only speaker wire I had available was very difficult to see polarities, I cross wired one woofer to crossover. Switching entire speaker polarity was ineffective so I re-traced my steps; darn bass bin located network! MLP now back to where it was and actually has widened from 1 to 3 seats. All is well at the casa but I do like the Audyessy treatment when using the HT system. Still looking out for a McIntosh MEN220 to use in two channel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 >>> Still looking out for a McIntosh MEN220 to use in two channel. another pile of silicone crap between you and your music. Less is more. I'm pretty happy with my home built A nets. I liked my home built original design ALKs too. Somebody offered me too much money for them, they're gone. When I went to build new to replace them I decided to go with the KISS approach. Since I don't abuse my equipment or ears I don't need the tweeter protection and since I don't run low power SET I don't need the constant impedance, so A I have. AFAIC, simple is good. Good to see you Dean. Hope you are well. Thanks for being nice to me when I first showed up here, I've gotten a hell of a lot of enjoyment our of my stuff over the years. Still have my HF-81 and '60 K-horns along with the Homebuilt LS and Belle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 Thought I would draw out the circuit schematic based on Dean Wescott drawing of the Klipschorn AK-4 for those that understand such designs. As far as those who think they can just look at a network and assume a certain sound well all I can say is beware..!!! Based on past conversations with Roy I think it's important that it's understood when he designs networks they are based on many tests including anechoic testing and final listening test. The networks are designed based on current drivers and Klipschorn cabinet designs and are optimized for crossover between drivers and to properly balance the system. I want to state that I have installed the AK-4 update kit from klipsch many years ago for a friend and have listened to his system many times with dozens of different tube type amplifiers including McIntosh MC2000, Mc225, Mc240, Mc275, Mc30, Marantz 8B, Lamm 6C33 PP amps Scott 222C, Cary CAD 805C SE, Wright 2A3, and AES SE-1 2A3 modified to just list a few of them. My impressions after the AK-4 Kit installation was tighter and impactful/dynamic bass with good tonal balance and excellent vocals and imaging on good recordings. I believe it's important to understand that when someone swaps networks and drivers in the Klipschorn you have affected the voicing and optimization provided by Klipsch and just because the individual may like the change there is no guarantee anyone else will. I don't think it's hard at all to understand why Roy would not and will not endorse or approve any changes that weren't designed and tested by Klipsch. miketn 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 11 hours ago, Tom Mobley said: another pile of silicone crap between you and your music. Silicone: Silicon: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 1 hour ago, mikebse2a3 said: I thought I would draw out the circuit schematic based on Dean Wescott drawing of the Klipschorn AK-4 for those that understand such designs. Did you really draw that schematic by hand on graph paper? If so, that is super nice work. You have good printing skills and a steady hand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted March 18, 2017 Author Share Posted March 18, 2017 11 hours ago, Tom Mobley said: another pile of silicone crap between you and your music. Less is more. Typically I would agree Tom however in my case I find the silicon(e) treatment from the pre/pro is nicer in my room / setup. I can easily button to pure on the Marantz and my ears like the treatment. So with that said I would like to hear the MEN220 after reading weeks of innerweb postings. I will probably buy from the same place I got my 275 amp as they will allow a audition for the cost of return shipping if I don't like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Tom, You're easy to be nice to - you're good people. :-) Didn't you do the build on Smilin Steve's DBB Cornwall cabs!? Mike, Nice job on that schematic. I submitted the layout because you asked about R5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 >>> Didn't you did the build on Smilin Steve's DBB Cornwall cabs!? Yes, built the whole things except for your work of art crossovers. Wonder whatever happened to them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 those things has JBL baby cheeks tweeters, JBL 2470 mids on Martinelli wood horns and dual bass bins with $800 apiece 15" drivers. When I got them ready to fire up I thought I would spend days fiddling to the crossovers and Al transformer based tweeter attenuators. I took them outside and ran a quick sweep test with a CD based tone generator and a Rat Shack meter. I was completely freaked out when they showed really good. I took them back in the house and cranked them up on my HF-81, source was a Sony SACD. I couldn't believe how good they sounded. I played all kinds of different stuff on different days. Eventually backed off the baby cheeks on notch on Al's attenuators and shipped them. Those JBL drivers on the Martinelli horns are to die for. I've never heard anything that good before or since. They made my '60 Khorns with all original components sound like a transistor radio. Fortunately for me, auditory memory is short. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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