EJC Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 I previously posted on the complete rebuild of the heresy 1s. They are being used in a 5.1 system as the Front Mains. I originally was going to use the M-L Edge in-walls as the mains but I didn't like the sound. the small short cone drivers were distorting on bass. The M-Ls are now used as a Front Effects. For any interested, here is a sound test of the system, 1st with the Heresy's alone followed by the Heresys with the M-Ls. 1- I'll warn now, my miking at the start for the intro is louder than the test. I used the on-camera mike and it recorded at a higher level. The music was recorded with a wide angle shotgun mike. 2- I brought it up through youTube on Amazon Fire and the 5.1 did pass through giving a fuller sound than a laptop. (I would guess Chromecast would do the same) 3- Bob Crites supplied all parts for the Heresy 1 rebuilds except for wire, gaskets and misc. crap The Room: The room is an audio horror story. 18' ceilings. Lots of reflections. Left side windows in center with sloping rise to ceilings on either side. Right side is open. Rear is open. The System: Speakers: 5.1 but not as you'd expect. The setup is all front. L&R Mains - Klipsch Heresy1 (1979) complete rebuilds L&R Effects - Martin-Logan Edge in wall Center - Martin-Logan SLM surface mount Subwoofer - Parts Express - Dayton Titanic 10" Receiver: Yamaha RX-A860 Turntable - Fisher Studio Standard MT-273 Direct Drive (1983) - checked out professionally with cartridge prior to being put into service Cartridge - Ortofon PM-10 TV - Vizio 70" UHD The Song: Booker T and the MG's - "Soul Dressing" My impressions: 1- The Heresys (and SW) do a fine job on their own, but add in the M-Ls and set it to 7ch stereo and the room just erupts in a great sound 2- In this room, the rears were not missed when watching Hacksaw Ridge. The room reflections seem to adequately fill in the void Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Watched the video. Also checked out the rest of your YT channel. Good stuff! You say the room has horrible acoustics and reference the 18' ceiling. That's not the problem here from what I gather. In fact, the 18' ceiling is the best thing going so far for your bass response. What's the layout of the rest of the room? Technicalities aside, all I hear is the lack of toe-in required in order to maintain tonality. Unless the front wall is wider than 30 feet, firing any of the Klipsch Heritage product straight into an untreated room is going to end up sounding excessively honky. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJC Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 16 hours ago, Quiet_Hollow said: Watched the video. Also checked out the rest of your YT channel. Good stuff! You say the room has horrible acoustics and reference the 18' ceiling. That's not the problem here from what I gather. In fact, the 18' ceiling is the best thing going so far for your bass response. What's the layout of the rest of the room? Technicalities aside, all I hear is the lack of toe-in required in order to maintain tonality. Unless the front wall is wider than 30 feet, firing any of the Klipsch Heritage product straight into an untreated room is going to end up sounding excessively honky. Thanks for the compliment on the videos. It has been an interesting learning curve and as you can see from the micing best efforts can still get screwed. But I was going out of town and didn't have time to redo the first clip. Then there is the factor on how well the mic and camera will record the full frequency response of the recording. I really am not a fan of doing this kind video, despite having done a few. The recording itself - Booker T and the MGs were 60s jazz/rock - and as most music from the period, it was not overly focused on bass. Today they seem to have gone too far to the opposite extreme. but, the song does have a nice bass line. At this point, I am very happy with the sound. Depending on how you're listening to the recording it can sound like there is little bass, but it's there and it's good. I didn't go into the details in this post (I did in another post) but I was able to tame things nicely. So, I'll go through it now. The room is roughly 30x30 with an 18' ceiling. The Right side is open with a balcony above. The Left side is roughly 20' of windows. There is also ~10' of sloping ceiling on either side of a 10' window section (this section has an 18' ceiling) The Rear is about 1/2 open into the kitchen Hardwood floors on cement slab. There is a large center area rug and large right angle sectional couch at the listening position. The right angle section of the couch is on the left. To start out, I had the system (TV and M-L speakers) installed by Magnolia. Part of what I ended up doing was correcting their mistakes. It took a bit of playing around but I think I got the system dialed in nicely. I had originally wanted to avoid floor standing speakers out of deference to the wife. I thought the M-L would do it but they didn't. They sounded great in the showroom but they just didn't fill the room and they were distorting. The first thing I discovered setting up the YPAO was one of the M-Ls was out of phase. So much for professional installers. There was also a vibration to the bedroom wall behind the living room. I checked the manual and discovered that the installers should have insulated around the speakers. So, at 11pm (OCD is showing) I'm pulling the speakers (not fun) correcting the phase error, pitting dynamat on the plaster board and stealing insulation from the attic (I didn't have any spare insulation). This improved things but it still wasn't right. This was when I decided to go the Heresy1 project. They made a huge difference, but the M-Ls still sounded like the were distorting with the speaker cones bottoming out. Back to the M-L manual to check the frequency response, again not done by the installers. I adjusted the Yamahas Lo-pass filters, it took some hunting to find them in the menu. the system balanced out nicely. The system now sounds great, the vibration is gone, the M-L are not bottoming out. The SubW and Heresys provide plenty of bass. All is good 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted March 17, 2017 Moderators Share Posted March 17, 2017 No expert here by far but all the differences in the room is probably helping I would think. Much better than a boxy closed in room with more and worse reflections. Sound going off to different areas could help instead of bouncing around in a closed in room. Just a guess, does this make sense ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJC Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 7 hours ago, dtel said: No expert here by far but all the differences in the room is probably helping I would think. Much better than a boxy closed in room with more and worse reflections. Sound going off to different areas could help instead of bouncing around in a closed in room. Just a guess, does this make sense ? Now that the Heresys are installed, and the M-Ls balanced I'll agree with you. Initially at low volumes, like I leave it low often, the M-Ls alone weren't bad. But at the listening point when I went to drive them harder they were breaking up. The smaller drivers and short cones couldn't handle it. And for A/V the 3 M-Ls were a disaster. Once I put in the Heresys and balanced the bass going to the M-Ls the system changed completely and filled out the room nicely. The M-Ls are no longer bottoming out, the bedroom wall is not vibrating and the room fills with sound nicely. And at this stage, the reflections help. When I switch to video the Center channel is no longer over-driven, the Heresys helped here as well. And the other night, we watched "Hacksaw Ridge" and never missed the rear channels. The sound with the front 5.1 was more than adequate to give a great A/V experience. So yes, I'll agree, NOW the room reflections help give a good listening experience. Lessons learned: 1- Just because they are pros doesn't mean they know everything, mistakes can still occur 2- Whether hobbyist or Pro, READ THE MANUALS!!!!!!!!! 3- Don't expect a speaker to do more than it is built to do 4- Google can usually get you the answers you need, in all probablity, someone else had the same problem. I solved the lo-pass issue on the Yamaha with google, while I was on hold with Yamaha customer service. How to access the x-over points in the Yamaha menu is a bit tricky (hidden) 5- And finally, just because something is a modern design doesn't mean that it is better. In this case, a 50yr old design saved the system Thank you Paul Klipsch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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