Sprinter1104 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 I'm currently running my MCM 1900 stacks using the original passive networks which are probably due to be recapped. They are powered using a Yamaha Aventage RX A3040 9 channel amp, pre out to a Crown XLS 2500 into the passive networks. I like the idea of the Xilica XP 8080 and the flexibility it offers. It would be nice to tone down the MSM just a bit. What do you think, recap the passives or switch to active? If active, is the xilica XP 8080 the right choice for a 7.2 application? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornukopia Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 I have a tri-amp set-up for my Klipschorns, so my vote is for you to upgrade to a digital electronic crossover and have a technically superior system. You will also need more external amplifiers. Forum member @Chris A is the active crossover expert, and is using the Xilica crossover. The XP8080 is an 8 in, 8 out unit, so if you have a pair of 4 way MCM 1900, you would utilize 2 of the 8 available inputs and 8 of the 8 output channels. The XP4080 is a 4 in - 8 out unit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Active is ABSOLUTELY the way to go with a fully horn loaded system. With active crossovers you can add time delay to allow all of the frequencies to arrive at your ears at the same time. The lower the horn frequency, the longer the horn, so it takes more time for the Bass note to arrive at your ears from your MWM bins, than it takes from the tweeters of your MTM or MMTM in your stack. You wont realize the time / frequency smearing between the frequencies until you do a direct A / B comparison, but it is there. Going active will only let your stacks sound even better Roger 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 You mention that your MCM1900 is a 4-way system. For a "7.2" (actually a 7.1 with two subs) system, your MCM1900s would take 2 input channels and 8 output channels of a Xilica XP-4080 or XP-8080 crossover. I'd recommend using the XP-4080 and save perhaps $100-$200 over an XP-8080, since you wouldn't be using those additional four input channels: you actually need 2 input channels and 8 output channels. Note that you'd need eight amplifier channels just for your MCM1900 (4-way). For the balance of your 7.2 array, you'd need at least five more amplifier channels for your surround channels, and 2 amplifier channels either built into your subs or two more external subwoofer amplifier channels. Chris 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minermark Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Active are my McMs, Carvin XC3000 for the Active, works just fine, Just ask the Neighbors, well those that will sill talk to you anyway 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprinter1104 Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 8 hours ago, Khornukopia said: I have a tri-amp set-up for my Klipschorns, so my vote is for you to upgrade to a digital electronic crossover and have a technically superior system. You will also need more external amplifiers. Forum member @Chris A is the active crossover expert, and is using the Xilica crossover. The XP8080 is an 8 in, 8 out unit, so if you have a pair of 4 way MCM 1900, you would utilize 2 of the 8 available inputs and 8 of the 8 output channels. The XP4080 is a 4 in - 8 out unit. Thanks Khorn, One of the questions I had was how many inputs on the xilica I would need. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprinter1104 Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 Roger, Thanks for confirming I'm on the right track. Do you have any suggestions on where I would find the correct time delays to use? Rick 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprinter1104 Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 2 hours ago, Chris A said: You mention that your MCM1900 is a 4-way system. For a "7.2" (actually a 7.1 with two subs) system, your MCM1900s would take 2 input channels and 8 output channels of a Xilica XP-4080 or XP-8080 crossover. I'd recommend using the XP-4080 and save perhaps $100-$200 over an XP-8080, since you wouldn't be using those additional four input channels: you actually need 2 input channels and 8 output channels. Note that you'd need eight amplifier channels just for your MCM1900 (4-way). For the balance of your 7.2 array, you'd need at least five more amplifier channels for your surround channels, and 2 amplifier channels either built into your subs or two more external subwoofer amplifier channels. Chris Thanks Chris for taking the time to post the illustration, this makes it much easier to follow. Do you have any suggestions on amps that play well with the Xilica? Rick 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 38 minutes ago, Sprinter1104 said: Do you have any suggestions on amps that play well with the Xilica? I use stereo Crown D-75As (rack mounted with XLR balanced connections) that are available used for $70-$200 each on ebay and craigslist, etc. You could look at those multi-channel amps that are built up from individual stereo ICEpower modules and integrate them into a box of your own (saving big $'s): http://www.classicaudioparts.com/index.php/amplifiers/bang-olufsen-icepower50asx2-module.html http://www.ghentaudio.com/cable/index.html 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 3 hours ago, Sprinter1104 said: Roger, Thanks for confirming I'm on the right track. Do you have any suggestions on where I would find the correct time delays to use? Rick Rick, Some certain active crossovers have this option built into them, but the cheap way out is that Cown XTI amps can be used with their own adjustable crossover frequencies and adjustable time delay functions already built into the Amplifiers or Crown I-Tech amps if you have the extra coin. Roger 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 3 hours ago, Sprinter1104 said: Roger, Thanks for confirming I'm on the right track. Do you have any suggestions on where I would find the correct time delays to use? Rick Rick, Almost forgot, Roy Delgado who goes by Chief Bonehead on this forum was the head of the Klipsch Pro Speaker Program did the testing and hands out the delay numbers for the Jubilees. I would hit up an email to Roy on if he knows the numbers or has an educated guess on where to start with your specific MCM 1900 4 way system as I would assume that it even varies slightly on the numbers as to if you are running an MTM, or MMTM and also whether you have a single 2 inch Gaus Driver or the four K-55s with a K-4 manifold on your K-260 horn Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 3 hours ago, Sprinter1104 said: Roger, Thanks for confirming I'm on the right track. Do you have any suggestions on where I would find the correct time delays to use? Rick By the way Rick, I assume that you are a Sprint Car driver. I have no idea how old you are, and you might be too young to know, but my cousin Eric Gordon was twice the National Points champion in 410 cu inch USAC and was sponsored by an oil / fuel company, I think it was 76? You can google him. Rog 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 4 hours ago, Sprinter1104 said: ...Do you have any suggestions on where I would find the correct time delays to use? If you can't find these delay settings, then you can measure and get close: Measure from the center of the voice coil gap of the drivers (tweeter to midrange, midrange to mid-bass, mid-bass to bass). In the case of the bass bin, the centerline path length can be calculated. Once those relative distances are found in say, inches, then you can divide by 13584 to get the physical time delay for each way of the loudspeaker in seconds relative to the next lower frequency channel. Start with the bass having zero delay, then add the midbass delay to the midbass channel, then add the midbass+midrange delay to the midrange, and finally, add the midbass, midrange, and tweeter delay to the tweeter channel. If you are using a steeper slope crossover (digital or analog), add 90 degrees of phase delay (the wavelength being defined as the center frequency of each crossover filter set) to each channel per order of the crossover filters. For instance, if using a fourth order Linkwitz-Riley crossover, add 4x90 degree = 360 degrees of added delay due to the higher-frequency channel. This should get you within a range where you can adjust the delay centers by physically moving the driver/horn toward or away from the listener by a small increment in order to find true time alignment. If you play a sine wave at the center crossover frequency, you can simply listen for alignment, or you can reverse the phase of one of the channels temporarily, then listen for the greatest attenuation of the sine wave playing at the center crossover frequency. Re-invert the channel polarity once you find the correct delay/placement. Chris 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornukopia Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 This data sheet, http://assets.klipsch.com/product-specsheets/KPT-MCM-II-Data-Sheet-v08.pdf on the newest version of the MCM is a good reference guide. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprinter1104 Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 Roger, thanks for heads up re Chief Bonehead. . I'll drop him a note and see if he can get me close. I already dropped the coin on the Xilica so looks like i"m committed to that route. I've been a huge Sprint Car fan since 1980. I'm no driver, but I have driven one (although slowly) felt plenty fast though. Your cousin drove in an era full of some of the all time greats, Dick Gaines, AJ, Jan Opperman, the list goes on. It was the route to indy back then. Chris, I hope I didn't bite off more than I can chew. It's going to take me a while to think through the steps you've given me to attain the proper time alignment. Seems complex, but I'll take it a step at a time. I really appreciate that you're taking the time to help me get there. I'll take any help or suggestions your willing to offer concerning the Xilica active crossover. I've read dozens of posts by you, Roger, Mark 1101 and others. Just enough to get me in trouble I suspect. Khornukopia, Thanks for the data sheet. It's for a much newer system than mine, but maybe the specified time delays would get me close. I've had this sheet and I'm planning on using the crossover points it calls for. Unfortunately, no time delay information. MCM1900good (1).pdf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 6 hours ago, Sprinter1104 said: Roger, thanks for heads up re Chief Bonehead. . I'll drop him a note and see if he can get me close. I already dropped the coin on the Xilica so looks like i"m committed to that route. I've been a huge Sprint Car fan since 1980. I'm no driver, but I have driven one (although slowly) felt plenty fast though. Your cousin drove in an era full of some of the all time greats, Dick Gaines, AJ, Jan Opperman, the list goes on. It was the route to indy back then. Chris, I hope I didn't bite off more than I can chew. It's going to take me a while to think through the steps you've given me to attain the proper time alignment. Seems complex, but I'll take it a step at a time. I really appreciate that you're taking the time to help me get there. I'll take any help or suggestions your willing to offer concerning the Xilica active crossover. I've read dozens of posts by you, Roger, Mark 1101 and others. Just enough to get me in trouble I suspect. Khornukopia, Thanks for the data sheet. It's for a much newer system than mine, but maybe the specified time delays would get me close. I've had this sheet and I'm planning on using the crossover points it calls for. Unfortunately, no time delay information. MCM1900good (1).pdf Rick, 76 was the fuel company that sponsored him, not the year he won either of his National titles. Eric grew up in Indiana and used to come stay at or farm in Ohio when his dad would take him to Columbus, Ohio to race Quarter Midgets. He started racing Quarter Midgets when he was 6 years old, and his younger sister started racing Quarter Midgets when she was only 4 years old. Roger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprinter1104 Posted March 18, 2017 Author Share Posted March 18, 2017 Roger, the Eric Gordon that won the little 500 like 5 or 6 times? Wow! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 11 minutes ago, Sprinter1104 said: Roger, the Eric Gordon that won the little 500 like 5 or 6 times? Wow! Rick, Yes, absolutely, he is my Cousin Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 1 hour ago, twistedcrankcammer said: Yes, absolutely, he is my Cousin Name dropper... Roger... hope the weather has been treating you well. Would love to hear your TCSMs some time. Bruce 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprinter1104 Posted March 18, 2017 Author Share Posted March 18, 2017 That's awesome Roger. I hesitate to ask (risky profession) do you know who he is driving for this year. My wife and I are heading to Indy this year and plan on seeing the little 500 at Anderson Speedway the night before. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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