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McIntosh 2100 or 2120?


32blownhemi

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Just as an added source for recent Mc stuff that has and will sell open / trade in  / used online, in addition to the ones Jim listed:

Echo Audio in Oregon; awaiting first order MEN220 but has been extremely responsive even when "closed"
Paragon Sight & Sound in Michigan. Great folks to deal with. C2500

 

In agreement Jim. Talking more current pieces here but I think the prices I paid will yield much less "loss" and easier to sell if I decide to turn the items than some of the lessor known "brand" names. Warranty and returns if you don't like them in your system goes a LONG way especially when you live in areas that are not serviced by dealers. Mega dollar (in my mind) component with rights to return and I am just out return shipping. That's a good deal. For instance the MEN220 room correction unit (yea some like pure - purity) but if I don't like it I am out $70; I can live with that.

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8 minutes ago, Dawson's Ridge said:

I don't trust you. I think my MC452 is better, much better.

Yea, that's fine.  All of us need 450 watts per channel for........what?  So we can show off to our friends and neighbors, so we can have "headroom"....?  So we can look at those big meters?  Whatever floats your boat.  Have fun with that.

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9 minutes ago, jimjimbo said:

Yea, that's fine.  All of us need 450 watts per channel for........what?  So we can show off to our friends and neighbors, so we can have "headroom"....?  So we can look at those big meters?  Whatever floats your boat.  Have fun with that.

I think the opinion of Sidney Corderman who designed most of the old McIntosh tube amplifiers best describes the matter of old tube amplifiers vs new solid state amplifiers.

 

"Scientific testing and controlled listening tests reveal that most of these old tube amplifiers have performance levels substantially inferior to modern solid state models. Anyone investing in a contemporary vacuum tube product will experience less than the best in available performance."

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There is no comparison between the old Mac rebuilds mentioned here and the modern Mac units of today.  NONE.  I have 2 MC-2100s, and 3 MC-250s all rebuilt by either DeWick or John Warren.  I had an MC-252 at one point and heard the 501s and 1201s.  They beat the crap out of all of the old units.  Just no comparison in clarity and crispness.  

If you have the cash for the new stuff, and it's A LOT of cash............it's definitely worth it.  A little power never hurt anyone either.

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On Monday, March 20, 2017 at 10:32 PM, USNRET said:

......awaiting first order MEN220 but has been extremely responsive........

 

I'm drooling over getting one of those. If it does what MCACC from a Pioneer Elite did in my bedroom then I can only dream what it will do to the main system.

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" They beat the crap out of all of the old units.  Just no comparison in clarity and crispness.   "

 

Well spoken for someone that has never heard a 2120 with my cap mods.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/McIntosh-MC-2120-Stereo-Power-Amplifier-Vintage-Classic-Audio-Made-in-USA-/351998136859?hash=item51f4b9521b:g:mGsAAOSwhlZYvMOB

 

Typical price for a working 2120, non-working would go for half.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/mcintosh-mc2120-amplifier-for-repair-/322373930603?hash=item4b0efbce6b:g:y44AAOSwnHZYZXQB

 

The MC-252 has a lot of room for improvement, it used polarized electrolytics with no bypass in the direct signal path, and NE4558 opamps (gag me on both).

 

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/mcintosh/mc252.shtml

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19 hours ago, Dawson's Ridge said:

controlled listening tests

Yep, that's a good one.  Right up there with taste tests, smell tests....I guess since everyone hears exactly the same thing, then there couldn't possibly be any delta between the control subjects.  No difference, NONE.

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Here's another take: Pick up an MC 2105. It has the same internals as the 2100, but has an off/on switch and those damn gorgeous, blue meters. Having to plug/unplug my 2100 to turn it on and off drove me bananas. Some guys will disagree, but I've had great luck with MX113 preamp/tuners over the years. It's not a C32, but it's also half the cost.

 

Jeff

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Thank You for all the replies everyone! Well, after flip flopping all over the place! Tube, no SS, tube, no SS. New, no restored, new, no restored... I decided on a mc275 off of Ebay. One was going for $5499 & the other for $5777. Than I thought; "Why don't I call local McIntosh dealers & see how much they go for new. Surprise! $5500 brand new! I called one dealer & he had them backordered with all of them already sold. Said he'd put me in the next group of backorders. Then I called another dealer & he has one on the floor. Said it was only hooked up a couple of times. I asked about a discount cuz it was a floor model but need to call back tomorrow when the manager is there. He's holding it for me &  discount or not I plan on getting it there tomorrow. So there cheaper brand new from McIntosh than used? LOL... That's Ebay for ya... It's a lot of money but I'm tired of looking. I checked with McIntosh Audio but their tube units aren't ready to sell. You put a deposit on them & then they restore it. Takes awhile...  And I don't want to get something that needs work. I can't do it & I don't want to wait for repairs....   Bill

 

 

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On 3/20/2017 at 7:07 PM, USNRET said:

Is this on or off the record?

Sorry for the drift OP! My -28 worked fine with the exception that it was old and had the volume pot issue. Terry ran it thru his bench, repaired but not restored (while I was waiting mind you) and at that point had no other Mc reference.

 I loved the 'drift'! I'm a new-be whose just learning! In fact, next up is a pre-amp!   Bill

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Some of our guys are giving to much to amplification.  Yes, the old gear is good and even better once serviced.  There is nothing particular magic on amplification.  If the amp can meet output demands and transients without significant coloration, it is an good amp.  Do you have to have everything replaced, no!.  I have first hand heard some of the older Mc units, superb to say the least and every bit worthy of their praise.  Is this better than current gear, name your product.  That is the fair way.  They are hard to beat and people that choose thist way, I have a hard time finding fault with their decision.  Vintage gear can be very good, the question is are you ready to get it up to reasonable spec.

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Remember, all we are doing at this stage is amplification and no one has the market on this.  Better yet is the preamp and what it is doing with the sound and sound being reproduced.  Forget that I'm a purists  stuff, I use direct or pure on the avr.  What is happening in your room is the real thing .  I am not the one to tell you that I have it right or am remotely close.    To this day in my audio knowledgel, there is no perfect speakers.  Yes, your K horn, jub , Palladium or RF system.  This does not mean you can't get dramatic SQ and performance out you're system for a great sound.  Do your part and the system will reward you.  Yes, I did not blame components, It is on you!!!  

There are even good reasons that the Heritage have three drivers over two.  Why are we concerned over how many drivers are needed to  get the sound right, It is about the total system performance, otherwise we can dive down into one spec over another spec and never get to the true song.   

 

 

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10 hours ago, 32blownhemi said:

 He's holding it for me &  discount or not I plan on getting it there tomorrow. awhile...Bill

 

 

A new McIntosh MC275 is a very prudent decision with Klipsch speakers. It will have all the latest and important McIntosh technologies and will provide many years of enjoyable listening experiences.  As an added benefit, you will no longer have to waste time reading about and considering all the lesser brands of amplifiers and can instead focus on music listening taking pride in the fact you own the 'best'.   

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54 minutes ago, 32blownhemi said:

Thank You derrickdj1 & Dawson's Ridge! LOL @ "no longer have to waste time reading about & considering lesser brands"...  Now I just need to decide on a pre-amp, cd player, tuner, surround sound system & a turntable... Not done yet!   Bill

 

Oh, you're FAR from done.....(evil laugh).

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10 hours ago, 32blownhemi said:

Thank You derrickdj1 & Dawson's Ridge! LOL @ "no longer have to waste time reading about & considering lesser brands"...  Now I just need to decide on a pre-amp, cd player, tuner, surround sound system & a turntable... Not done yet!   Bill

That is a big load. If not for a turntable, you could get a McIntosh MCD500/550 CD/SACD player that would also serve as pre-amp and DAC.   

 

A one-piece alternative would be a McIntosh MAC6700 integrated amplifier. It would include amp, pre-amp, DAC, MM/MC phono section, and HD tuner. 

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" Pick up an MC 2105. "

 

Capacitors

The MINIMUM age of a MC2105 is 30 years old.

The first thing I would do is replace all the electrolytic capacitors.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I own a MC2100 and two MC2120s.

Caps wear out.

Even when not in use.

This list is for the MC2100, electrically it is the same as the MC2105, just without the meters.

Even though your old amp is still working, you have no idea how much of the music you are missing.

The parts are inexpensive.

Digi-Key is good, Mouser has no minimum order.

Posted by djk (M) on July 11, 2004 at 04:29:36
In Reply to: Re: MC2105 @ $ 100 even @ 20 yrs old is a best buy for me. posted by julian4@telkomsa.net on July 06, 2004 at 14:58:04:


The sound would benefit greatly from replacing a few dried out electrolytics, and adding a few film types here and there.
C301, 302 is the main input coupling cap. It is a Mylar type so it is likely to be OK, upgrading it to a Polypropylene type with give a smoother sound to the high end (0.47µF).

C307, 308 are emitter bypass caps, 100µF 15V. Replace with same type and add a 0.1µF film bypass.

C309, 310 are the output coupling caps for the pre-driver section, 10µF 25V. While a film type would be better, size is a problem. The DC bias across this cap also helps out with its being an electrolytic. Replace with same type and add a 0.1µF film bypass.

C303, 304 are the DC power supply caps for the front end, 470µF at 25V. Replace with same type and add a 0.1µF film bypass.

C1, 2 are the feedback loop caps, 330µF at 3V. The signal goes through these so replacing these with new ones and adding a 0.1µF film bypass really opens up the sound. Go with as high a voltage as what space permits.

C11, 12 are the DC supply caps for the voltage gain stage, 150µF at 50V. Replace with same type and add a 0.1µF film bypass.

C201, 202 are the main filter caps, 39,000µF at 40V. These may be quite expensive new, although I have seen them surplus for very low prices. I would use then unless signs of leakage or amplifier hum are there. Add a 47µF at 50V cap in parallel with each.

C203 is a multi-section cap that will be very hard to find a fresh date code. New caps are small enough that they may be wired to the terminals of the old one, leaving the old one in place. This cap is important as it provides the current for the diff pairs and the VAS. The sections go 80/80/150/50µF with the voltages being 200/200/150/150V. If you measure the voltages 100/95/90/80V are typical, so 200V caps are not really needed, but 100V is not enough.

 
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