Performance gains with a DAC

[richieb]

I have a simple system - CD player into tube preamp into either Class A single ended 2a3 monos or Class A single ended solid state monos

all into Jubilees. I'm curious about the hype of a DAC into a system. Both my CD player are fairly serious pieces, a CEC that uses twin Burr Brown PCM 1796 DAC's and a Pioneer Elite PD93 that to the best of my research uses twin Burr Brown 20 bit converters.

Looking at a Schiit Gag Multibit with a 15 day return. Bottom line - what is the performance gain. With the CEC and Pass single ended amps I find it hard to imagine a huge leap in sonic refinement. Am I wrong? With the understanding I can return the unit I'd rather not go through the hassle with limited to zero gain. 

[derrickdj1]

First why do you need a DAC.  The basic reason for a DAC is for digital conversion to analog.  Next, consider the source and transport, computer, iphone, streaming over HDMI or optical, ect.  Most CD players, Bluray players, avr's will have a DAC.  Most modern era DAC's are very  similar if they at least do 96 kHz/ 24 bit.  There are some that do 192 kHz/32 bit.  The audible difference should be minute.  

 

Some people like external vs the internal one in their device.  With newer devices, the DAC's are generally very good and little audible difference compared to an external DAC.

[mark1101]

 The advantage of a DAC will be the ability to connect to the internet or a music server as well as handle higher bit rates.  Your CD player can likely only do 16/44, and may have a digital output that you can pipe into a DAC.

 

I have seen an excellent improvement in my setup simply by going from my Benchmark DAC2 to a new Benchmark DAC3.  Was worth the $2K.

 

If you are looking for a budget DAC YMMV.

[Schu]

Most modern dacs are similar in sample rate and bit depth, where better end dacs excell is in reduction of jitter, power source isolation and more precise clocking. To me the audible performance yield will be the experience of a more liquid or smooth sound. For most not doing critical listening, it's not necessary to spend so much on a conversion device... even a moderate DAC will sound good. Also, if you don't have speakers that are capable of such clarity, what's the point... but that doesn't seem to be your problem.

[Keith_M]

Derrickdj1:

 

As an electronics engineer of 30 years before I retired a few years ago, "textbooks" and my education support your position, and I'd like to agree with you. However, my experience has led me to appreciate that the implementation surrounding a DAC chip (e.g. trace routing and isolation, quality of the various supply voltages, clock quality ... generally, the experience of the design team) can affect the quality appreciably. That is probably why my 20-year-old Madrigal/Proceed DAC, with its 18-bit D/A converter, exhibits a darker background and greater image depth than my recently-acquired Oppo BDP-105 with its 32-bit D/A converter. Overall, I favor the sound of the Proceed unit, which regrettably does not have the ability to to convert high definition files.

[richieb]

So up to now it seems the pro/cons are about even. And it sounds like running my CD through a DAC is redundant, right? 

But wouldn't a stand alone DAC from today perform better than those of 10 years back as part of the CD player? Does a stand alone Dac refine the signal that has already been processed within the CD player? I guess I'm still lost so maybe trying one for a couple weeks and paying a 5% return charge is a reasonably cheap experiment. 

[adam2434]

There is no set answer to whether a DAC will be an improvement over your CD player.  Depends on the quality of the DAC and output stage on both.

 

Why not pick a returnable DAC in your price range, and give it a try?

 

Which Schiit model are you looking at?

 

A lot of folks use outboard DACs because they have multiple digital sources, and/or want better sound from streaming devices with digital outputs, or want to improve the sound of a lower-end disc player.

[Schu]

Your not "double dipping" the signal if your ouputs it in the correct format... that is where modern players can be better, the ability to output a signal in various formats to allow you to process externally. Also, they way in which the file is transfered matters... i2s, digital coax, optical, hdmi etc

[cincymat]

Since I'm the knucklehead that put this idea in your mind let me chime in. First of all the DACs in your PD-63 CD player are the famous PCM63P-K chips. They are 20 bit capable R2R design, with the K meaning highest quality. Stuff of legends they are. I didn't know this about your CD player when I suggested a new DAC might sound better than ones from 1990. 

 

That being said, It would take a pretty high end modern DAC to better them.  The Benchmark DAC 3L for example. If you ask Benchmark they should offer a 30 day trial. They did for me.  

 

Mark