Poor Music Quality from MArantz 8801 w/ RF7 system

[racebum]

you have a LOT of room gain it looks like on the low end but your response curve is exactly what i'm talking about. i really don't like rolling tweeters and a fall off above 10k. it sounds too flat. it's alright for movies but most the time i tune for music and let movies fall where they will. audyssey does basically what your freq response shows and i hate that sound. it doesn't sound anything like a nightclub or live event. bring the 1-3khz zone down 2-3db and start to ramp up above 10khz and i'd probably like it. apparently there is an app for some of the better receivers starting with the sr5011 or nicer that let you custom tune. i have to look into that sooner or later 

 

[garyrc]

On 3/30/2017 at 8:14 PM, racebum said:

you have a LOT of room gain it looks like on the low end but your response curve is exactly what i'm talking about. i really don't like rolling tweeters and a fall off above 10k. it sounds too flat. it's alright for movies but most the time i tune for music and let movies fall where they will. audyssey does basically what your freq response shows and i hate that sound. it doesn't sound anything like a nightclub or live event. bring the 1-3khz zone down 2-3db and start to ramp up above 10khz and i'd probably like it. apparently there is an app for some of the better receivers starting with the sr5011 or nicer that let you custom tune. i have to look into that sooner or later 

 

I doubt if this particular roll-off at the very top (about 2.5 dB) is due to Audyssey.  Audyssey FLAT was trying to get it FLAT.  If I was using Audyssey Reference, there would be a Audyssey induced roll-off.  I think the roll-off, in this case, was because the main listening position and the REW measuring position were both off axis (i.e., the line from the speakers crossed a few feet in front of the listener). 

 

The B&W curve might show a rising curve above 10 K in an anechoic chamber, but would it in a room where there are treble reflections (even in a treated room) that have attenuated very high frequencies making up a good amount of the treble content the listener gets?  Do you have a B&W?  Have you ever run a curve on it in your room?  FWIW, I compared a B&W 801F to a Khorn, and the Khorn was much brighter.  I know B&W may have changed their voicing POV since then; Klipsch hasn't, much.

 

 

[racebum]

On 4/2/2017 at 7:12 PM, garyrc said:

I doubt if this particular roll-off at the very top (about 2.5 dB) is due to Audyssey.  Audyssey FLAT was trying to get it FLAT.  If I was using Audyssey Reference, there would be a Audyssey induced roll-off.  I think the roll-off, in this case, was because the main listening position and the REW measuring position were both off axis (i.e., the line from the speakers crossed a few feet in front of the listener). 

 

The B&W curve might show a rising curve above 10 K in an anechoic chamber, but would it in a room where there are treble reflections (even in a treated room) that have attenuated very high frequencies making up a good amount of the treble content the listener gets?  Do you have a B&W?  Have you ever run a curve on it in your room?  FWIW, I compared a B&W 801F to a Khorn, and the Khorn was much brighter.  I know B&W may have changed their voicing POV since then; Klipsch hasn't, much.

 

 

you're absolutely right and it's not necessarily what the graph says as much as how your ears perceive how the sound is reproduced. the b&w 800 series virtually across the board sounds wonderful and i do agree the khorns are brighter...substantially so. i had a pair of heresy 2's for awhile and just could never get into their sound. could be the amps, could be the music i listen to. could be the hardwood floors. 

 

i thought about this after my last post and it's not so much that i want a tweeter to ramp up. it's more of how that tweeter reproduces the sound. i like klipsch with most cinema. it can sound good with early rock music, often paired with a high quality tube amp. i've noticed most klipsch speakers. ones worth buying anyway like the reference v or now reference premier and up are very particular with room setup and the amps you feed them with.

 

modern music on the other hand. B&W all the way. if you're playing rap, beats or dance/trance B&W really come to life. you also can have two speakers that look the same on paper but sound completely different to your ear. i learned this the hard way years ago buying speakers that measured similar to a pair i loved. the sound they made was not even close to the same 

[dachuckster]

I have not tried defeating Audessey yet, just no time to sit down and play more and listen to music. But when the reference is made that people boost up the bass after running Audessey, are they boosting it at the subwoofer, or within the Marantz (preamp) itself?

[garyrc]

9 hours ago, dachuckster said:

I have not tried defeating Audessey yet, just no time to sit down and play more and listen to music. But when the reference is made that people boost up the bass after running Audessey, are they boosting it at the subwoofer, or within the Marantz (preamp) itself?

They usually boost it in the preamp (or AVR), because such adjustments are repeatable.  The subwoofer itself should be turned up enough before running Audyssey so that the boost in the preamp trim will be no higher than 0 (some people say -3).  This prevents the preamp sub output from distorting or clipping, i.e., it lets the built in subwoofer amp do the heavy lifting.  Audyssey determines that to be flat a trim setting in the pre would be - 10 or -11, that's good because it allows a large sub trim boost when you set it after running Audyssey, while still keeping the trim boost  below 0.  Beware an Audyssey indicated trim setting of -12. however.

[russ69]

OP, what exactly is missing in the sound of your system? Cleaner? Brighter? warmer? More or less detail?