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Going to demo Cornwall 2 and La Scala i, what look for?


CDinMB

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Question:  what should I look for when demoing? Recommendations? 

 

Background: Demoing tomorrow and probably deciding to buy one of the two.  The La Scalas are the industrial version in black (not my wife's favorite) or walnut recovered Cornwall IIs which present well in pictures.  Both systems have been been cosmetically restored but the components are original from the late 70s.  They will be going into a room that is 15x30, placing them on the long wall.  I do not have an amp yet but I am looking at 30-40wpc tube Macs for a strictly 2ch setup.  I play guitar and listen to soft rock, blues, and jazz at moderate levels.  No worries about neighbors and noise levels.  I do have a few db loss in hearing in the 3-4K range which will color my evaluation, I am sure, so it will come down to which sounds the best to me and the wife can live with. 

 

TIA

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make sure all 3 drivers are working. on the lascalas you can close off the midrange opening with a towel and put your ear up to the tweeter to hear if its working.

on the cornwalls same thing but you might have to remove the grills.

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Take a few CD's with you, or let the person who is demoing know what type of music, and the artists you listen to.  As I'm sure you know, the LS and Cornwall are two completely different animals, and will sound very different from one another.  Don't judge either by the first few passages of music you hear.....let them play out for a bit, and get used to them before making a decision.  Good luck, and have fun.

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56 minutes ago, muel said:

Are both at the same location?  That sure helps eliminate the difference between rooms.  

Have fun!

Unfortunately the LS are at the sellers apartment and the CW are at his fathers house, so there will be a 10 min drive and different rooms to affect the decision.  Just adds to the fun I suppose. 

 

I will bring CDs and a towel! Thanks for the input. 

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Going by your music preferences, you will most likely like the LaScalas best.  Keep in mind that the Cornwalls go lower at the bass end of things, but the Lascalas WITH an added subwoofer will eat the Cornwalls' lunch, hands-down!  For your listening preferences, and since you are also a guitarist, the mid-range and upper bass the LaScalas provide will put you right THERE during the audition.

 

As for the wife, and the industrial lascala appearance...as compared to the appearance of the Cornwalls...if you had her listen to both pairs blind-folded, then (other then the deeper bass of the Cornwalls!) she would probably go with the LaScalas, too!  Genetically-speaking, human adult females tend to favor the bass and midrange over the highs and midrange...something about how body mass picks up the lower frequencies and the generally denser pelvic bone structure of adult human females.

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18 minutes ago, HDBRbuilder said:

Genetically-speaking, human adult females tend to favor the bass and midrange over the highs and midrange...something about how body mass picks up the lower frequencies and the generally denser pelvic bone structure of adult human females.

Andy wins the internet today!!!

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On 3/27/2017 at 7:41 AM, CDinMB said:

Question:  what should I look for when demoing? Recommendations? 

 

Background: ...I play guitar and listen to soft rock, blues, and jazz at moderate levels...I do have a few db loss in hearing in the 3-4K range which will color my evaluation... 

For me, the evaluation should prove out whether or not the La Scalas have deep enough bass to satisfy my tastes (BTW...they don't...).  However, good horn-loaded bass is difficult to pass up in my experience.  Pairing with good horn-loaded subs usually helps this deficiency out--pretty effectively.  (YMMV.)

 

So I'd bring music selections that are heavy on bass (below 100 Hz) and midbass (100-400 Hz) performance.  You know the pitch of a tuning fork (A=440 Hz)...which is squarely in the midrange.  An octave below that is the midbass, etc.  You can figure that one out.

 

First: make sure that the loudspeakers are about the same distance out of the corners of the room in both rooms.  If the loudspeakers aren't within 4-5 feet of the corners of the room, ask if you can place them there.  Make sure that there's something on the floor (like carpet) to soak up the excess midrange energy from about 400-2000 Hz.  Try placing something like a thick towel or quilted fabric across the top of the speakers if they are in a room with little absorption--especially if there's thin or no carpet on the floor.

 

Cornwalls typically hide their bass modulation distortion initially, so you need some music selection that has a lot of bass+midbass at the same time.  Listen for clarity of midbass performance (100-400 Hz) over the bass lines at listening volumes that are above 80 dB at the listening position (i.e., you can't talk over the performance without shouting).  Use something with a lot of kick drum and listen for garbling of the midbass in the Cornwalls during those transients. Listen for midbass and midrange clarity with walking guitar lines-up and down and kick drum playing at the same time.  Listen to lower male voices (i.e., not a screaming falsetto rock lead singer) and contralto female voices --like your typical female jazz singer.  Turn up the volume until your eyes just begin to blink when the kick drum or crash cymbals are struck, then listen to the female or male voice.  It should be crystal clear. 

 

Again, the issue that I'd try to put to rest is whether or not the higher modulation distortion of the Cornwall bass bins affect the listening experience.  I'm pretty sensitive to this type of distortion.  Modulation distortion makes the lower midrange and midbass sound opaque and defocused. 

 

The other type of distortion to listen for is something known as group delay distortion.  This type of distortion occurs with vented boxes--like the Cornwall, but really not in the horn-loaded bass of the La Scalas.  Listen carefully to kick drum transients with your best and cleanest jazz combo recordings that have heavy kick drum presence that hasn't been rolled off during mastering. Is the kick drum very tight and extremely well defined, or is it sloppy and overbearing?  You'll hear this one easily.

 

Otherwise, the differences are minimal.  The K-400 midrange horn in the La Scala is a bit longer than the K-700 in the Cornwall (i.e., these are approximately the crossover frequencies from bass to midrange).  The thing to listen for is overall balance of the midrange to bass and tweeter to midrange.  Sometimes the capacitors in the crossovers age too much and roll off the highs and midrange relative to the bass.  This is easily fixed with $50 worth of new capacitors.

 

Chris

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I would never buy "pretty" over better sound...But that's just me. 

 

I believe that it's wise to think down the road a bit when you get used to the looks...but are either thrilled or somewhat disappointed in the sound.

 

Chris

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17 minutes ago, ricktate said:

I think the LaScalas will trump the corns. But the wife factor will decide for you I bet...lol.... Female vocals will be better on Scalas. Just buy the pretty ones for your wife and be happy in both worlds.

My personal experience as a former Klipsch employee is that pretty much EVERY GAL who worked at Klipsch when I was there went for LaScalas over Cornwalls...almost EXCLUSIVELY!  They would buy Heresys first, then LaScalas....then many would buy K-horns...very seldom did they choose the Cornwalls over the LaScalas, and MOST of the time, if they DID purchase Cornwalls, they were getting them for a family member....but keep in mind that home theater and availability of subs to go with LaScalas was not actually happening (yet) except for a very small minority of buyers throughout the late 1970's and into the mid 1980's....just saying...and also keep in mind that "getting dressed-up" for the majority of the gals working there consisted MORE of putting on make-up, doing their hair, and squeezing into either daisy dukes or Levis 501's or "boot cut" jeans with a tank-top or Klipsch T-shirt more often than not back in those days.  I kinda miss those days...ya'know??

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When the wife reiterates her disdain for the industrial LaScalas' appearance....just remind her that when you want to have an outside party, they will fit right in...and blow away the party-guests!  NOTHING beats LaScalas out on the patio, deck or poolside...or riverside or lakeside, for that matter (except, of course, MCM stacks!);)

 

With fully-horn-loaded speakers' DIRECTIVITY, even if the volume is set too high to carry on conversations at normal voice level while IN FRONT of the speakers during outside parties, you can always stand or sit between or BEHIND them to do that while the party animals have to scream at each other while in front of them!

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3 hours ago, HDBRbuilder said:

Genetically-speaking, human adult females tend to favor the bass and midrange over the highs and midrange...something about how body mass picks up the lower frequencies and the generally denser pelvic bone structure of adult human females.

If I had only known this back when I was young and single. 

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On 3/27/2017 at 7:41 AM, CDinMB said:

Demoing tomorrow and probably deciding to buy one of the two.

Well inquiring minds want to know ? 

 

Either will sound good in your room, but if your willing to add a sub later for the wife's denser bones, easy choice LaScala.

I am one of the people who loves the industrial LaScala look, and like Andy said they sound great outside.

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Thanks for all the great input!

 

So we went, we listened, we bought.  Wife and I both agreed on the La Scalas.  Even my wife, who is not an audiophile, admitted it was an easy choice.  I took some Eagles and Steely Dan and the seller had some some classic jazz.  He also had Cornwalls IIs at his house and his personal La  Scalas IIs to reference.  The La Scala IIs seemed to have a bit more bass balance than the LSi, but it could have been the 200wpc amp driving them versus the 30wpc we used to demo the LSi.  I was happy with what I heard. The CWs had huge bass but I could hear the distortion in the mid bass and more concerning, I lost some of the guitar solos in the mix.  I have some hearing loss so I brought music I knew well and I expected to not hear something.  Surprisingly, my wife also noticed the loss of some guitar solos, and as a guitar player, this was unacceptable. :) 

 

The LSi have the AA X-over and are all original.  Bass could be stronger but I could hear every note and the articulation and sound stage is what I was after.  They delivered that.  Speaking of delivery, wow these things are heavy!  Even with them being four boxes, the bass cabs are a wheeled only moving experience. 

 

The LSi are well refinished, look new and though not beautiful in the living room, look nice enough. My wife is very understanding when it comes to sound.  She agrees how they sound is more important than how they look.  It only took 40 years of marriage to get her there. Now I need to find the rest of the system.  One component down, more to go.

 

CD

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2 hours ago, jimjimbo said:

Great choice, we need photos!

As you can see in the photo, wife is giving up her cabinet spot in the living room when I actually get amps, etc.  Speaker center lines are about 7 ft apart and listening position is about 12.5 ft from each speaker.  It is killing me to just look at them! 

 

Shopping tube amps...

 

IMG_1907.JPG

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