AndyKubicki Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 I guess what I was trying to say is that each of us listens differently. The Adcom I have now is OK for the most part. It delivers the power I want, the bass response and clarity. I decided to try tubes because of what many who have heard tube equipment say about its other qualities, but have not heard much about the power and bass response, so I wanted to be sure that I'm not sacrificing power and bass for these other things (which I have not yet heard). I have been convinced that I won't be sacrificing what I feel is important, and am going forward. That does not mean that power and bass response are my ONLY criteria, but they are important...as one who also plays bass you surely understand this as well. It's funny, but my wife and I listen so differently. She is vocally oriented, and hears mainly the melody and sings or hums along. I hear bass and drums, then the harmonies, then the melody. For her, a good voice and emotion are important. For me, the composition must be interesting as well as instrumentation. Now I am really ready to hit the hay ------------------ Andy 78 Khorns w/ALK (20' apart!) Audire Difet 3 Preamp Adcom GFA 535 II NAD 4130 Tuner Marantz CD 63SE Pioneer DV 434s>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 Yeah, what the hell are we doing up at 5:54am! And I never went to bed! I agree with you completely on the listening differences and perceptions. Indeed, if you go back and see the post before the one that caused the controversy, this is my very point. What I meant was that it makes judging equipment much harder if you only use a FEW of these variables, such as shaking the concrete etc. To be able to make an accurate assessment of this gear, and one that is given credence by more than a few, you need to listen on a variety of levels, with a variety of types of music, as well as have listened to good number of pieces as a reference, not to mention the exposure to live music, both acoustical and electriFRIED. kh ps- I am in the EASTERN time zone.... you are just hitting your stride! This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 09-21-2002 at 05:01 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted September 21, 2002 Author Share Posted September 21, 2002 You know you guy's may think were here to read Mobile's dribble like this is some kind of Audiophile magazine. If he has something to say then just say it and don't bother with the three paragraph smart *** under handed remarks. The point is I started this thread asking a honest question of his opinion on different tube choices for my HF-81. Did he address these comments...... NO !!!! All he did was jump in here with his normal dribble ! Doing all he can to get under my skin !!! When I have ever criticized someone's listen habits or the volume that they listen at ? I like my music loud at times and expect a amp to be able to do it clearly and without making nasty distortion. That is my business !!! It doesn't matter to me in the least what everyone listens to or what amp they use to do it. I think all amps have there strong points and don't dismiss any of them. He did the same thing when he out bid me on the 2 EZ81's he did that purposely to get under my skin. He hasn't bought a thing on Ebay in ages and then all the sudden he out bid me on some tubes !! Please !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted September 21, 2002 Author Share Posted September 21, 2002 You know I just read through this entire thread and as usual Mobile only reads and replies to parts of posts that he can pick apart or create problems. Read the thread, read what I posted and what I asked. He ignores what he is asked and reply's to what can cause problems. I could careless if were 2 different ships passing in the night thanks god we are. I just wanted to know his tube opinions !!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 Not in an attempt to change the course of this discussion, but to comment on something I know a bit about (and y'all can ignore as usual): quote: Originally posted by JCturboT: Plus it'll keep me warm this Winter with my drafty Anderson windows. Jeff Anderson makes a great product, my favorite window company. Are the windows really drafty? How old are they? Do you know who did the installation? Are you interrested in making them un-drafty? fini p.s. Shhh...I'm not here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 You know, fini, I was just getting ready to ask you that. My contractor friend was blabbing on about Pella this and Pella that, something about "blinds inside the windows." Well, Anderson strikes me as the simple approach. My question is this: Why would someone want those ugly miniblinds INSIDE the windows where you can't mangle them or use them to hang your cat like an Egyptian cradle? kh ps- Craig, I thought ole Jazzman Edmond gave a fine answer. Get your favorite 12AU7/12AX7. I now have Dumont (Holland) 12AU7 and they are working fine in my original. Experiment if you have enough samples of either. This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 09-21-2002 at 09:10 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 You can custom-order the Pellas with the cat in there with the blinds. fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 I knew those window guys were on the cutting edge, I just didnt realize how sharp that edge was... It appears to be like a brand new Henckels. Can you send your own feline? I prefer the tortoise shell to the standard black and white tabby. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 Options abound. If you'd like a mouse in there with the cat (your own "Itchy and Scratchy Show"), that's the Low-Eek version. fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@silverfox@ Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 Hey Craig, been trying not to bother you, like so many other's and to let you have the time needed, unable to hold back any longer.How is the everything going so far.Oh i'm sure you will eventually get the responce about the tube you requested,might have to eat a bit of humble pie,this might be proportantely to such a spirited outburst( ) These moments of deep affection are so touching ,only in a real family can one find such epression of real love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pland Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 Hey NOS, My preference for 12AX7 and 12AU7 in the HF81 is telefunken "smooth plate".Their overall balance sounds good to me in this amp,although maybe a touch less warm than some like.This amp sounds very"fast" to me,and this tube choice compliments the sound.Mine wasn't real sensitive to output tubes,and I tried a variety (Telefunken,RCA,Sylvania,JJ,Ei).Ditto with the rectifiers.It had a pair of Sylvania EZ81's in it,and I think I replaced them with GE NOS.Both were excellent. As far as you and Mobile Homeless disagreeing with each other,I actually thought you were joking with each other until I read your more recent posts.I can't imagine him outbidding you on Ebay for the sole purpose of jacking you around.I've posted back and forth with him for a couple of years and I can tell you,he's just not that trivial. As far as SET(particularly 2A3) vs. a PP EL84 based integrated,they're worlds apart.The imaging and midrange clarity of the good SET amps is so much better than either a Scott299 or an Eico HF81,that it's no contest.Where 2A3's generally fall flat on their *** is in overall dynamics.With the right music and loudspeaker efficiency,they sound unbelievably good.With Rock and bottom heavy music(I'm gonna get attacked for this one)they just don't get there.I've pretty much settled on having two systems.I've got a 300B amp built and designed by Lee Roitberg for my SET system ,and a Harman Kardon Citation II for my"less delicate" system.I love them both. As far as Mobile being an effete HiFi snob,he's not.He gives good info based on real experience,not brand loyalties.I gotta tell you,his preferences and observations very closely parallel mine,and I've never even met the guy. As far as your preference for Scott 299's,don't make a religion of it.They are super for the price and features,but if you think they sound great at volume,a Citation II will shear your head clean off!The problem is that,once again ,they've gotten discovered and have doubled in price in a few months.One zoomed off Audiogon for 1200.00 in days. Sounds to me like you've got a great active start in a fun hobby(?),especially since you're learning the mechanics of tube amps from the repair end up.But lighten up a bit on Mobile Homeless ,huh?The guy absolutely knows his stuff,and I would bet that a few years,and dozens of equipment choices later,you would probably agree with him on most things(well,maybe not music). BTW,I've got a lot of tubes for Eico,Scott.You're welcome to try them if they're different from your stock. Best, Pat Landrum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 I've been following this thread over the last couple of days, trying to decide if I have anything constructive to add. Thank you Pland, for so perfectly putting down my feelings regarding "the friction". I'm sure Kelly is more than able to defend himself, but I think I will make some comments. Craig - I don't even really understand why you get so hot. Mobile ***** slaps everyone once in while, it's just the way he is. Personally, I think it's hilarious, and he's done it to me on several occasions (remember the thread on firearms and concealed carry). Earlier in this thread Mobile made an analogy using two different types of ships -- and you kind of went off the deep end so to speak. Somehow, you took it as an insult. I certainly don't agree with everything Kelly says, but it's always interesting to read his insights and perspectives. I think this also applies to most who post here in 2-channel. Hey, just eat the meat and spit out the bones. If Kelly is attempting to get under your skin, then it would certainly appear he has suceeded. The irony here is that you won't give an inch any more than he will. I've said this several times in the past, but it's a fact that Kelly is soley responsible for transforming the 2-channel forum, as well as increasing the listening pleasure of 75% of us by a magnitude of 10. We shouldn't view disagreements, friction, and tension so negatively. Think of the jagged small stones in a river that rub against each other as the current moves them along the bottom. After a while, all that rubbing and bumping makes stones with a surface as smooth as glass. Let it go. Be a thermostat, not a thermometer. Kelly -- quit picking on Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 Where 2A3's generally fall flat on their *** is in overall dynamics.With the right music and loudspeaker efficiency,they sound unbelievably good.With Rock and bottom heavy music(I'm gonna get attacked for this one)they just don't get there. Pat, what you've done here is offer an excellent assesment of both, what is positive and the shortcomings of SET, which for someone like myself, is info I need. You should NOT get attacked for this. This tells me that I would probably not be happy with SET when listening to dynamic pieces of music. I may love the sound for other pieces. That allows me to make better buying decisions, which right now, as my first entry to tubes (or really, a re-entry if you consider an Allied radio receiver I had in the late 60s-just sold on eBay for $52. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1377988837&rd=1 ), dynamic abilities of an amp are important. I can see myself down the road getting an SET, just to try it, maybe for other listening, as all music I listen to is not necesarily dynamic, but who know? Until I have the ability to hear these things, I rely on observations of you, Craig, Kelly, and many others here. From emailing and speaking with Craig, he strikes me as a sensitive good person willing to help those that need it, and I like those qualities in a person. Kelly is articulate, also willing to help with his knowledge, and also with good qualities. Both are valuable assets to this forum. I don't like to see anyone $hitting on the other, even when it's done eloquently... ca ca can't we all jjju just ge ge get along? ------------------ Andy 78 Khorns w/ALK (20' apart!) Audire Difet 3 Preamp Adcom GFA 535 II NAD 4130 Tuner Marantz CD 63SE Pioneer DV 434s>c> This message has been edited by AndyKub on 09-21-2002 at 12:33 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 Vroom! Vroom! My amp will beat your amp in the quarter mile! Shootouts for titles! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 What I really want to know is which amp will survive 'the drop test' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 Never mind. This message has been edited by deang on 09-21-2002 at 02:16 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 Pat, my experience with tube amps is certainly rather limited (a Marantz 8B in a friend's house -Telefunken EL34s - Cello preamp - La Scala), a Chinese amp using EL84 some Irish (?) amp using four 300Bs and my own 300B integrated. I wouldn't trust my aural memory when it comes to a detailed evaluation of these amps, but what I remember clearly is that for some reason the Irish amp didn't like to have my Khorns and the Rel sub connected (rather a strong hum developed) so it had to be speakers without sub. When I put on the first Dave Brubeck CD I could't believe my ears: I didn't miss the sub for a second. Now I know a live Telarc Jazz CD isn't perhaps a valid recording to evaluate an amp's potential properly, but the sound wasn't at all bass shy and dynamic it was too. Now I might change my mind once I've listened to the Eico, but until now I must say that I am really very happy with my 300B amp (and that goes for Classical, Jazz and Pop CDs). Just my 0.02$ Wolfram ------------------ 1973 Khorns with ALK crossovers and tubes - for me an extremely musical match. This message has been edited by dubai2000 on 09-21-2002 at 02:37 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 Wolfram, are you using a sub with the Khorns???? Alles gutes! ------------------ Andy 78 Khorns w/ALK (20' apart!) Audire Difet 3 Preamp Adcom GFA 535 II NAD 4130 Tuner Marantz CD 63SE Pioneer DV 434s>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pland Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 Yo Wolfram, Yes,you've picked one of the coolest,and most sympathetic to SET albums ever(Take Five?).Works great with 300b,and 2A3,Speakers over 90db eff.Include all Miles Davis,Jimmy Smith,Dave Grusin,etc. But pick difficult stuff for this genre' and the HF81 will wake up your speakers just a touch.More bass energy,snap,but less overall clarity.You decide which you like. Also,12 watts PPEL84 is closer to a 300B in terms of energy than a 2A3 based amp. Best, Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 Andy, yes,after having listened to a big bass drum in the Royal Albert Hall I simply found that the speakers on their own can't get close enough to 'the real thing'. I must admit though that my Rel (Stadium II) isn't ideal. I've always wanted to try one of those SVS subs that get such rave reviews in the sub section but $$$$. Pat, the album I was talking about wasn't the classic Time Out, but a recording of a concert that was recorded live in Washington D.C in 1995 (but it includes a version of Take Five too). I am not an expert of Jazz, my main field of interest is classical stuff and no matter whether it's a big symphony (let's say Mahler or Bruckner) or an opera (Verdi, Wagner, Puccini etc.) the 300B certainly impresses. The timbre of voices/instruments can sometimes be quite breathtaking. All in all the 300B amp is the first in which everything seems to be of such quality, that you simply enjoy the sounds comming from the corners. Still, I can imagine (an have been told before)that in comparison certain peculiarities (weaknesses) of the amp/tube can be felt. I am certainly looking forward to the vintage alternative Wolfram ------------------ 1973 Khorns with ALK crossovers and tubes - for me an extremely musical match. This message has been edited by dubai2000 on 09-21-2002 at 04:31 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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