Mounting Khorns to ceiling

[BeFuddledinMn]

For what it's worth, I'll share what I've seen and heard - done along these lines. About 40 years ago, there was a famous bar in Mpls called the Cabooze. They featured a lot of top bands at the time. They had a pair of Klipschorns mounted about 6-7 feet off the floor in corners, resting on platforms that mimicked the top of the top hat. The platforms acted as "floors" while the backs were cabled to the the walls to prevent a disaster. They were meant to feed the front end of the bar with good sound. No sound measurements that I'm aware of, but I know the guys who put them in were very picky and were well versed in realistic live sound. In my opinion, they succeeded, but then again, alcohol was always a prominent feature of that establishment. I'm sorry I don't have a picture, but everyone was aware of those Klipschorns.

 

-BeFuddledInMn

 

 

[richieb]

^^^^^

Bags packed, tickets bought --

First beers on you ?

[richieb]

1 minute ago, BeFuddledinMn said:

For what it's worth, I'll share what I've seen and heard - done along these lines. About 40 years ago, there was a famous bar in Mpls called the Cabooze. They featured a lot of top bands at the time. They had a pair of Klipschorns mounted about 6-7 feet off the floor in corners, resting on platforms that mimicked the top of the top hat. The platforms acted as "floors" while the backs were cabled to the the walls to prevent a disaster. They were meant to feed the front end of the bar with good sound. No sound measurements that I'm aware of, but I know the guys who put them in were very picky and were well versed in realistic live sound. In my opinion, they succeeded, but then again, alcohol was always a prominent feature of that establishment. I'm sorry I don't have a picture, but everyone was aware of those Klipschorns.

 

-BeFuddledInMn

 

 

 

I must revert to the ever popular "pictures or it didn't happen" --

 

[TasDom]

There use to be a high end audio store here in Albuquerque that had Khorns inverted and mounted like the OP is proposing. I have no recollection tho of how these were mounted but they did sound sweet.

[BeFuddledinMn]

Richieb, 

 

Maybe, maybe not, but virtually everything Klipschorn discussed today was well traveled in the 60's and 70's, and some might say, with a lot of "style."

 

Best,

 

BeFuddledInMn

[Peter P.]

I don't think the solution is to mount the Klipshorns from the ceiling.

 

The solution is to build pedestals UNDER the Klipshorns that elevate the speakers to ceiling height. Secure the pedestals to the adjacent walls. I don't care HOW loud you play the Klipschorns, they won't walk off the pedestals. Probably shape the pedestals to match the shape of the Klipschorns, for aesthetic reasons. Use natural wood and the speakers will visually disappear into the room.

 

Inverting the speakers makes sense in that it will couple the woofer to 3 surfaces; the adjacent walls AND the floors, and it will place the midrange and tweeter closer to ear height.

 

You might lose some tactile bass since the woofers will be so far off the floor, but everything has trade-offs.

 

A bizarre idea, but I suppose it could work.

[J M O N]

1 hour ago, Tasdom said:

There use to be a high end audio store here in Albuquerque that had Khorns inverted and mounted like the OP is proposing. I have no recollection tho of how these were mounted but they did sound sweet.

It was "Sound Ideas."  I saw and heard it as well.  They had a theater room with Khorns in the front, a Belle center, and Khorns in the back flying upside down from the ceiling.  I don't know how they mounted them as it was probably twenty years ago.

[The History Kid]

The only thing this thread is missing is someone drinking moonshine and another guy saying "Hey ya'll, watch this!"

[wvu80]

3 hours ago, cincymat said:

It it would be interesting to have 25 ft high cathedral ceilings with 4 sets of Khorns. 2 flying and 2 grounded. 

See Mustang Guy's Speaker Ranch, with La Scalas.  Three front grounded, three rear elevated on metal shelving.

 

I'll post a pic if I have one.

[jimjimbo]

The only thing this thread is missing is someone drinking moonshine and another guy saying "Hey ya'll, watch this!"

Come to Hope.....

[dtel's wife]

1 hour ago, jimjimbo said:

Come to Hope.....

Yea, I think I saw that guy last year!

[wvu80]

1 hour ago, jimjimbo said:

2 hours ago, IbizaFlame said:

The only thing this thread is missing is someone drinking moonshine and another guy saying "Hey ya'll, watch this!"
 

Come to Hope.....

 

Or come to West Virginia...where the moonshine and the "hey ya'll watch this..." is followed with the interaction of small farm animals...

[Khornukopia]

A shelf for upside down Klipschorns in the corner of my garage is starting to sound like a good idea, because I want the floor space for things like motorcycles. The door rails make it awkward to place large heavy boxes there, so I will borrow a friend's forklift to raise them into place when ready.

 

[juniper]

13 hours ago, BeFuddledinMn said:

For what it's worth, I'll share what I've seen and heard - done along these lines. About 40 years ago, there was a famous bar in Mpls called the Cabooze. They featured a lot of top bands at the time. They had a pair of Klipschorns mounted about 6-7 feet off the floor in corners, resting on platforms that mimicked the top of the top hat. The platforms acted as "floors" while the backs were cabled to the the walls to prevent a disaster. They were meant to feed the front end of the bar with good sound. No sound measurements that I'm aware of, but I know the guys who put them in were very picky and were well versed in realistic live sound. In my opinion, they succeeded, but then again, alcohol was always a prominent feature of that establishment. I'm sorry I don't have a picture, but everyone was aware of those Klipschorns.

 

-BeFuddledInMn

 

 

I've been there, way to many beers and girls to notice the Khorns!

[CECAA850]

Just get some speaker stands like these.

 

[dtr20]

Just get some speaker stands like these.







 

Damn, ok, I have a new goal

[JJkizak]

You know that this individual is going to need 4 big guys to pick up the K-horn that high. Either that or an NFL nose tackle.

JJK

[DizRotus]

If you're crushed by one of these you'll have a personal Klipsch cross over to the choir invisible.  Give our best to PWK.

[HDBRbuilder]

K-horns work just as well upside down and mounted TIGHTLY and SECURELY to corners at the ceiling as they do placed into the corners while on the floor.  THis type of installation has been done for decades in numerous  clubs and such.  Why a ceiling mounting in clubs???...more often than not is NOT to provide MORE FLOOR SPACE, but instead is to keep drunks from spilling their drinks onto the speaker tops as they set them down on it or pick them up from it...spilled drinks and HF section electronics simply DO NOT get along well with each other!  Any floor space gained for a club is minimal, anyway!

 

The bottom of the bass bin needs to be TIGHT to the ceiling, AND TIGHT into the corner for its Bass Bin to perform the same as on the floor. There are numerous ways to accomplish this.  But you want it to REMAIN TIGHT to the ceiling at all costs!

 

I have seen them with a 1/2" or more thick plate of TEMPERED aluminum mounted to the bottom of the bass bin, with the aluminum plate having been drilled and tapped to accept large machine bolts PRIOR to the installation to the bottom of the K-horn bass bins.

 

Up in the attic, there was 2X6 reinforcement added between the trusses so that the bolts could be mounted through the 2x6 material, then the ceiling drywall and into the already drilled and tapped holes on the aluminum plate mounted to the bottom of the bass bin.

 

The reinforcement in the attic was the first phase of the operation, WITH THAT REINFORCEMENT installed tightly to the upside of the drywall ceiling, but SECURED to the trusses with lag screws.

 

Then the TEMPERED aluminum plates were cut to a perfect match for the shape of the bottom of the bass bin.  The Plates were then drilled and countersunk for the MULTIPLE wood screws required to attaché the plate to the bottom of the bass bin.  Then they were drilled (but not yet tapped), for the LARGE bolts which would secure them THROUGH the attic reinforcement, through the ceiling drywall and INTO the aluminum plate.

 

Then the aluminum plate with the holes was used as a template up into the ceiling corner to mark the holes for the bolts which would secure the plate to the ceiling.  then the holes for those bolts were drilled THROUGH the ceiling drywall AND the attic reinforcement 2x6 lumber.  The drill bit used for this was a bit oversized for the bolt shank size to allow for adjustment as the bolts would be tightened up...to ensure a tight fit into the room ceiling corner.

 

Then the particular untapped holes in the plates were tapped.   The plates were mounted to the bottom of the bass bin using wood screws, and then using the mounting BOLTS, with one lock washer under the bolt head, and a flat washer under that...the bolt goes through the attic reinforcement wood, drywall, and screws INTO the tapped holes in the plate on the bottom of the bass bin.  Before all the bolts securing the bass bin to the ceiling are actually FULLY TIGHTENED, the "wiggle room" allows for final adjustment.  IF THE BOLTS ARE A BIT TOO LONG, and the bottom of the bass bin is keeping them from  tightening...go ahead and put them in anyway, just not completely tightened...and add flat washers of different thicknesses as needed undetr the bolt heads ONE AT BOLT A TIME to solve this problem UNTIL the bass bin is TIGHT TO THE CEILING.  This is, at a minimum, a MORE THAN TWO-MAN JOB!

 

At this point you need to provide TEMPORARY SUPPORT TO THE BASS BIN FROM UNDERNEATH. while you are preparing to install the PERMANENT support from underneath.

 

AFTER the bass bin is secured to the ceiling then a 3/4" or 1" thick Baltic birch "shelf" is secured to the walls below the bass bin as it is pushed up TIGHTLY to the bass bin itself  The shelf should have a "lip" strip on top of it which is adjustable so as to catch the front edge of the bass bin and hold that end of the bass bin tightly into the corner.  Make sense?  This is required for SEPARATE bass bin/HF cabinet K-horn models, whereas if the K-horn was a "D" style it would be mounted a different way because the "D" style (normally the style used to mount upside down in clubs) does NOT have a separate HF top cabinet to deal with  Make sense?

 

Once the Baltic birch shelf is installed, IT is what is ACTUALLY supporting the WEIGHT of the bass bin and the ceiling mounting plate is just back-up support...and ensuring that end of the bass bin remains tight into the corner and tight to the ceiling....that way the wood screws through plate into the bass bin itself the are not "over-worked" holding all of that weight.  Make sense?

 

After all of this is done mount a SECOND shelf BELOW the bass bin with enough room for the HF section (for Your particular K-horn model!) to fit into

 

Now you have the bass bin tight to the ceiling and into the corner, top and bottom.  AND it can't go anywhere, since it is also supported from underneath!

 

It does NOT make any difference if the HF section is tight to ANYTHING, just that it can't fall!  PLUS you can have the HF section right side up or upside down...whichever way it sounds best!

 

Then hook everything up and be surprised!

[smoil]

Finally got around to getting the Khorns off the ground.  Still need to do a little shimming height-wise, but sound great as is.  I went a little overboard strength wise (live in quake country).