codewritinfool Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 Ok, so here's one I'm trying to solve. While listening to music, I came across a Norah Jones track and at the beginning of it her voice slightly buzzed in a weird way from the right speaker. I started the track over and heard it again. It was distorted. I fired up REW and hunted around with the generator until I discovered that between about 270Hz and 305Hz I can get this mode to pop in - complete overtone buzzing distortion coming from only the right speaker. Sounds like the squawker. I swapped output channels on the amp and fired it up again and it is still there in the right speaker. This is at completely normal listening levels, but I did notice that if I pump the level up a couple of dB I can get it to pop into resonance at a few Hz lower. The only drivers on my horns that are original are the K55s, so I said screw it and ordered a set of A55G's from Bob Crites. They came and the swap out was easy, new gaskets too. The resonance is still there. I pressed around on everything to attempt to dampen the resonance in case it was a piece of wood or something vibrating. Last night I narrowed it down to the squawker for sure. In fact, I removed the driver from the actual horn and it is coming from the driver. Once again I swapped amplifier OUTPUT leads and it is still just in that right squawker driver, not the left, so it doesn't appear to be in the signal chain all the way up to and including the amp. The only thing left is the crossover, but that's a simple type A. Anyone ever heard of such a thing coming from the crossover itself? It has been recapped but the magnetics are original. Tonight I might swap crossovers between speakers and see what that does. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 Buzzing stands out that it is most like a problem in the speaker. Sometimes it is difficult to tell if something near the speaker is the cause of a resonance. Crossovers problems are also difficult to diagnosis since they don't come up often. A waterfall plot or bass decay graph may help shed some light. Also, look at the speaker box itself. A loose joint of something not sitting flat may cause this at certain frequencies. Let's see what others might have to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codewritinfool Posted April 8, 2017 Author Share Posted April 8, 2017 Thanks for your reply. This is definitely coming directly from the raw driver detached from the horn and held in my hand so the cabinet is not in the picture. Exactly the same frequency points on the old K55 driver as it is on the new A55-G driver. Since I swapped the amplifier outputs and it remained on that channel, the only thing left is the crossover and the speaker wire. I'm at work now but I can take an oscilloscope home later and see if I can see the distortion pre and post crossover. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 Check all the screw-down wiring of the network. One screw at a time. I highly recommend getting a tube of dielectric grease and removing the connectors from where they are connected, brushing them off with a wire brush until clean and shiny, then LIGHTLY coating the connectors with the Dielectric grease before re-securing them with the screws. Even if this does not solve your problem it is still highly recommended to do this on occasion...every few years. You may ALSO have a bad solder in the crossover which has finally given out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 Yes.... I have heard it coming from an XO. mainly on old factory oil can XO's when the dielectrics have changed. simple A doesn't mean the capacitors aren't bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codewritinfool Posted April 9, 2017 Author Share Posted April 9, 2017 Thanks to you all for the replies. I had a rough day at work and won't have a chance to look at the horns tonight. Maybe tomorrow, I will keep you all updated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 I meant electrolytic... not dielectric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter P. Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 23 minutes ago, wdecho said: Swap connections at the Xover. Use left for right, right for left and see what happens. Exactly. I hope I'm not saying the same thing but I suggest swapping the left and right speaker crossovers, then trying again. If the problem follows the crossover, then I'd say it's the transformer. Looking at a couple schematics, it appears there's a tapped transformer in the squawker circuit. The iron core plates in transformers sometimes separate, causing that buzz you hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codewritinfool Posted April 9, 2017 Author Share Posted April 9, 2017 I swapped amplifier output channels (yay speakons) and it stayed with the right khorn. Later tonight I plan to swap crossovers between khorns and see if the problem moves to the left khorn. I've ruled out the signal chain right up to the crossovers. I've also *pretty much* ruled out the driver itself, since the Atlas K55 driver and the Crites A55-G driver makes the same noise, even separated from the horn. I suppose they COULD be both making the noise as a defect, but it isn't likely since one is 50 years old and the other one is a week old. I've ruled out cabinet resonance because it happens in my hand. I don't push my Khorns at all. Interesting thoughts about transformer delamination. The caps are brand new so if it is indeed the crossover it almost certainly would be an oxidized connection or magnetics. I've been soldering for about 40 years and feel confident it isn't MY connections, though anything is possible. Thanks for the thoughts. Physical crossover swap happens next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 Have you considered that it might be the source material? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codewritinfool Posted April 9, 2017 Author Share Posted April 9, 2017 1 minute ago, Schu said: Have you considered that it might be the source material? I swapped left and right speaker wires and it stayed with the right channel... probably not the source material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieStl Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 If you swap the cross overs and the noise follows the x over, you have isolated your problem. I'm in StL and could loan you an x-over for your problem channel. AA, A-4500, AB, your pick. Not exactly the same but would let you know if it is the x over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 1 hour ago, codewritinfool said: I swapped left and right speaker wires and it stayed with the right channel... probably not the source material. What does swapping the speakers wires have to do with bad source material? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieStl Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 pretty sure he didn't totally swap the wires, just left wire to right speaker @ speaker connection and vice versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codewritinfool Posted April 9, 2017 Author Share Posted April 9, 2017 35 minutes ago, MookieStl said: pretty sure he didn't totally swap the wires, just left wire to right speaker @ speaker connection and vice versa. Yessir, this is correct. And when I changed the speaker connections l/r at the amplifier, it stayed with the right channel. I have some more honeydo stuff to get done today before I can retire out to my workshop and swap the actual crossovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 Source material... - a document from which information is obtained Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieStl Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 Source material - the medium or format (source) from which you are obtaining your signal or music. I now understand the confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davecv41 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 On 4/9/2017 at 5:02 PM, codewritinfool said: Yessir, this is correct. And when I changed the speaker connections l/r at the amplifier, it stayed with the right channel. I have some more honeydo stuff to get done today before I can retire out to my workshop and swap the actual crossovers. Your profile shows Super AA, did you find one of your Type A crossovers was the problem that caused the buzzing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codewritinfool Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 I am running Super AA now, but the odd resonance is still there. That's not why I changed to Super AA, but it helps rule out the crossover. The resonance doesn't bother me as much as it did, though it is still present. I know that sounds crazy, but I've been pretty busy these days and haven't had time to run it down further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 On 4/8/2017 at 8:25 AM, codewritinfool said: While listening to music, I came across a Norah Jones track and at the beginning of it her voice slightly buzzed in a weird way from the right speaker. Which track and album version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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