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Music quality Klipsch + Yamaha


SoundTemple

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I have just purchased a pair of Klipsch RP280F speakers with a Yamaha RX-V681 reciever and Yamaha BD-S681 Blue Ray disc player. These are my first Klipsch speakers as I have traditionally had a Yamaha and KEF set up.  I feel the sound quality is poor, my old KEF and Yamaha speakers absolutely blew me away when I first bought them but these Klipsch speakers are disappointing, I am beginning to feel I have been sold a dog by a very good salesman!!! Does anyone have tips on how I should set this system up? I like big sound. listen to Pink Floyd, Steve Winwood, Black Sabbath, Led Zep, etc. I need to get some action out of these speakers soon or they'll be going to the landfill, HELP me Klipsch people. Lol.

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If the RP280f's are brand new, they will take some break in before the top end settles down and the bottom end fills out some.  

 

Personally, I myself don't think the mid-lower end Yamaha receivers are a good match for Klipsch.  Klipsch need less forward, treble tilting electronics.  You have to be very very careful of upstream electronics, particularly amplification with Klipsch speakers.  Room and speaker placement also plays a big factor.  You can not have a lot of hard surfaces when working with more forward, crisp speakers.

 

That said, if what I am saying about the sound is what you are thinking, make sure you have appropriate sound deadening and you may want to manually work with the EQ vs. letting the auto-magic configuration run.  

 

My 2 cents and others will surely disagree.

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You have the foundation for a very nice system.  Is the RX-V681 new as well?  What don't you like about the sound you are hearing?  Does "big sound" mean loud or lots of bass, or both?  Is there a sub or other multi-channel speakers in the mix here?  Describe your room too.  Give us some more details and we'll see if we can sort this out.

 

Without knowing anything about your particular situation, but seeing several of these scenarios come through the forum in recent months, I'd bet there is an 'unintended setting' on the Yamaha in play here: speakers set to "small", YPAO doing something goofy, pure-direct mode disabling the sub etc...

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1 hour ago, Peter P. said:

What's "big sound"? It would help to know what kind of sound you're after and why you chose to replace the KEF's.

 

How does the sound differ between the KEF's and the Klipsch's? What model KEF speakers did you have?

Hi, what I mean by "big sound" is that the music is full through the full range - treble to bass - The speakers have good clarity of sound but depending on what you're listening to it either lacks bass or a mid-range. An example of this is listening to The Cure or The Stranglers where they have a heavy but precise and crisp bass, yet on the RP280F's it sounds muted or muffled (in the background), I can't quite put my finger on it but there is something missing. Could be the receiver, which I'm still working out at present. My old speakers were a pair  KEF C60's with a pair of Yamaha NS700X's. Hope this helps, I'd love to get this system balanced so I can enjoy it. Do I need a Sub Woofer?

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2 hours ago, pbphoto said:

You have the foundation for a very nice system.  Is the RX-V681 new as well?  What don't you like about the sound you are hearing?  Does "big sound" mean loud or lots of bass, or both?  Is there a sub or other multi-channel speakers in the mix here?  Describe your room too.  Give us some more details and we'll see if we can sort this out.

 

Without knowing anything about your particular situation, but seeing several of these scenarios come through the forum in recent months, I'd bet there is an 'unintended setting' on the Yamaha in play here: speakers set to "small", YPAO doing something goofy, pure-direct mode disabling the sub etc...

Hi, The speakers, receiver and CD player are all new. The "big Sound" really just refers to a rich sound with clarity from treble to bass, I don't need Gen Z big bass but I like crisp bass not muffled background bass which is what it sounds like to me, I don't run a sub woofer but should I with these speakers? The room is about  5 meters x 6 meters  so it is maybe too small for these speakers? I will play around with the receiver a bit more as I'm not used to all the "extras" on the modern amps, I like the older amps and receivers for their simplicity so it just could be that I have the receiver set up wrong. If you have any feedback it would be appreciated. Thanks

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2 hours ago, pzannucci said:

If the RP280f's are brand new, they will take some break in before the top end settles down and the bottom end fills out some.  

 

Personally, I myself don't think the mid-lower end Yamaha receivers are a good match for Klipsch.  Klipsch need less forward, treble tilting electronics.  You have to be very very careful of upstream electronics, particularly amplification with Klipsch speakers.  Room and speaker placement also plays a big factor.  You can not have a lot of hard surfaces when working with more forward, crisp speakers.

 

That said, if what I am saying about the sound is what you are thinking, make sure you have appropriate sound deadening and you may want to manually work with the EQ vs. letting the auto-magic configuration run.  

 

My 2 cents and others will surely disagree.

Hi, On reading some of these forums it appears you might be onto something, but in saying that the reviews are mixed so I'm not sure. I will need to break them in, the store where I purchased them from said 40-50 hours of playing time at low to middle volume until they settle in, I have been doing that and they do sound okay it is just the bass, it seems muffled, not quite as clear and crisp as it sounds on other devices. I will play around with the receiver and see if that alters the output quality. If you have any thoughts please let me know. Thanks

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SoundTemple,

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

I can't speak for your Yamaha/Klipsch combo but I can assure you my Yamaha A-S1000/Klipsch RB-75's combo definitely has "big" sound. 

 

2 hours ago, SoundTemple said:

Do I need a Sub Woofer?

The sound got even "bigger" when I added my Klipsch RSW-10d subwoofer to the mix.

 

Bill

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27 minutes ago, SoundTemple said:

Hi, On reading some of these forums it appears you might be onto something, but in saying that the reviews are mixed so I'm not sure. I will need to break them in, the store where I purchased them from said 40-50 hours of playing time at low to middle volume until they settle in, I have been doing that and they do sound okay it is just the bass, it seems muffled, not quite as clear and crisp as it sounds on other devices. I will play around with the receiver and see if that alters the output quality. If you have any thoughts please let me know. Thanks

Dual woofers typically offer low impedance.  That is something better amplification deals with vs many receivers no matter how they say they handle low impedance.  Bass drive requires better power amplifiers in the equipment.  If you don't do that, then get a sub. It is easier to place to get deeper bass.

 

When buying many receivers, they try to pack so much technology in them to make 80% of the people say WOW !!.  Too many times they forgo the reason the other 20% buy the equipment, the sound.

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Even though they have a rear port that shouldn't be blocked, at least try them in a corner to increase bass (and perhaps impact).

 

Try toeing them in toward the listening area.

 

Make sure there is an area rug on the floor in front of the speakers where the sound from the tweeter will hit.

 

Try reducing the number of hard surfaces (put in some absorption) in the room especially at the first reflection points (mirror test), and, if the speakers are in a corner, put absorbing pads along the walls starting at the point where a plank would touch the side walls if it was held flat against the tweeters, and extending two feet along the walls into the room from there.  Don't buy expensive absorbers from your "very good salesman" until you know absorbption will work.  Try hanging blankets folded over doubled or trippeled first, then look into absorbers (especially online).  Don't make the room too acoustically dead. 

 

Make sure your speakers aren't set to "small" in the AVR.  They should be set to "large" in the AVR for two channel.  If you get a subwoofer (which may help), then, and only then, should your main speakers be set to "small."

 

If you have tone controls, try turning up the bass.

 

If you get a subwoofer, you could turn it up a little.  If you get one, get a big one.

 

I'm biased in favor of separates, i.e., a separate power amp, one that handles impedance drops well.  Perhaps NAD.

 

 

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9 hours ago, SoundTemple said:

Hi, The speakers, receiver and CD player are all new. The "big Sound" really just refers to a rich sound with clarity from treble to bass, I don't need Gen Z big bass but I like crisp bass not muffled background bass which is what it sounds like to me, I don't run a sub woofer but should I with these speakers? The room is about  5 meters x 6 meters  so it is maybe too small for these speakers? I will play around with the receiver a bit more as I'm not used to all the "extras" on the modern amps, I like the older amps and receivers for their simplicity so it just could be that I have the receiver set up wrong. If you have any feedback it would be appreciated. Thanks

+1 to what Garyrc said.  Make sure your Yamaha is setup properly before returning it.  Specifically, front speakers set to LARGE and try straight or pure-direct mode since you don't have a sub.  Also check your Blueray player - if you are connected via HDMI or COAX, make sure it's sending 2-channel audio, not multi-channel to speakers that don't exist.

 

One simple test would be to 1) make sure the AVR has the front speakers set to large and then 2) play some 2-channel music via bluetooth or Airplay and see how it sounds.

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Thanks for the clarification.


First impressions: I'm going to assume you placed the Klipsch's in the same location as the KEF's, and in the same room. I found the instruction sheet for the KEF's and they're very detailed as to positioning the speakers. Are the Klipsch's tweeters at the same height as the KEF's were?

 

I think what's even more important is your comment "(the KEF's)  have a heavy but precise and crisp bass, yet on the RP280F's it sounds muted or muffled (in the background)".

I feel this is due to the Klipsch having a ported woofer. To my ears, porting makes the bass sound "loose" and lacks a crisp, sharp attack. Your KEF's are an acoustic suspension design. That sealed box tightens up the bass by pressurizing the inside of the box when the woofer is oscillating, controlling its movement.

 

Also, the fact that the port is close to the floor could be affecting the bass frequencies in your room. Room acoustics factor in greatly in affecting bass. I'd bet the woofers on your KEF's were higher off the floor than the port on the Klipsch's. Just for kicks, try placing your Klipsch's on milk crates or something similar. I don't expect this to be permanent, just an experiment for you to see if you notice a difference.

 

Could be you prefer the sound of acoustic suspension designs over the ported type of speaker. I know I do, and that's the reason I bought my Heresy's.

 

Another possibility is, the Klipsch speakers may need to be located somewhere other than the same location as your KEF's were. Read the owner's manuals for both and see what the recommendations are.

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6 hours ago, Peter P. said:

.

I feel this is due to the Klipsch having a ported woofer. To my ears, porting makes the bass sound "loose" and lacks a crisp, sharp attack. Your KEF's are an acoustic suspension design. That sealed box tightens up the bass by pressurizing the inside of the box when the woofer is oscillating, controlling its movement.

 

  ...  Could be you prefer the sound of acoustic suspension designs over the ported type of speaker. I know I do, and that's the reason I bought my Heresy's.

IMO the Heresy models should be considered to be "infinite baffle," rather than "acoustical suspension".   The term acoustical suspension was first used by the AR company to describe their bookshelf speaker design around 1959.  Infinite baffles existed long before that, like the marvelous Bozak line.  Acoustic suspension speakers had a very loose suspension (rather like some subwoofers today) and they were some of the muddiest speakers ever.  The air in the enclosure acted as you described it.  AFAIK modern acoustical suspension speakers all have a loose suspension intended for long excursion.  The Heresy models do not.  They have relatively tight suspensions.  Paul W. Klipsch did not like long excursion speakers, partly because they had higher modulation distortion.  Modern subwoofers get away with long excursion because they crossover at about 80 Hz, so they don't create spurious side bands in the zones in which the ear would be more sensitive to them, in the upper bass and lower midrange.  Even so, some people prefer horn loaded subwoofers to minimize modulation distortion. 

 

I'm aware that Crutchfield calls the Heresy III "acoustic suspension (sealed)," but those two terms are not synonymous.  All acoustic suspension speakers are sealed, but not all sealed speakers are acoustic suspension.  Bill Crutchfield says he has been "seriously into audio since 1974,"  which makes him a johnny-come-lately compared to some of us.  By '74 most sealed speakers were acoustic suspension, but not all, and not the Heresy.

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SoundTemple,







 







Welcome to the forum.







 







I can't speak for your Yamaha/Klipsch combo but I can assure you my Yamaha A-S1000/Klipsch RB-75's combo definitely has "big" sound. 







 











The sound got even "bigger" when I added my Klipsch RSW-10d subwoofer to the mix.







 







Bill



As701 good combo to BIG sound?
I like when the sound is big and the scene wide and deep, I like when the sound surrounds me.
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