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Prowlinger

BI-Amp Cables Needed / Suggestions?

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Hello there.

 

I recently purchased the Klipsch Reference Premier RP-280F speakers and wish to BI-AMP them to my Onkyo AV Reciever. TX-SR805.

 

I purchased these in hopes of BI-AMPing to increase front power.  The problem is the cabling. I originally was going to buy this Gotham SPK 8.25mm cable pair but they went out of stock. :((see image)

 

Does anyone have any other recommendations on cabling that would be equivalent or know a source for this cable other than Amazon?

 

Thanks!

 

Cable.jpg

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24 minutes ago, Prowlinger said:

Hello there.

 

I recently purchased the Klipsch Reference Premier RP-280F speakers and wish to BI-AMP them to my Onkyo AV Reciever. TX-SR805.

Bi-amping off of a receiver is arguable at best.  How does the receiver know to only send the low frequencies to the woofers?  What about the tweeters?  How does it know what your crossover point is?

 

I purchased these in hopes of BI-AMPing to increase front power.

 

That isn't exactly how that works.  In a lot of instances, you can actually decrease the amount of power going to your speakers elsewhere that you really need it.  For example, robbing the center channel of power to less than half increase the power of the towers.  It takes 2x the wattage to get a 3 dB difference in volume, you will not get that from bi-wiring.

 

Bi-amping appropriately requires an active crossover and bypassing the passive crossover network.  Whether you'd hear an audible and meaningful difference in towers is arguable at best.

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1 minute ago, Prowlinger said:

This amp support bi-amping to separate tweeter and woofer channels on front speakers.

I know that's what it says, but you're still running it through the passive crossover network of the tower - defeating the whole purpose.  The receiver also still has no way of knowing what the appropriate crossover setting is going to be for that tower.  You are not going to get a meaningful increase in power by doing it.  You might get some cleaner sound if you bypass the crossover network in the speaker, but I'd be skeptical if an AVR could handle that appropriately.

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What would be the point of including bi-amp options in this speaker then?  

 

I do not know anything about passover crossover / networks when it comes to speakers / amps.

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There really isn't one outside of if someone wants to actively bi-amp the speakers with an outboard crossover - which would make the dual-terminal outputs beneficial in a two way speaker.  Still, the sound difference on a tower probably would not benefit quite that much from such a change.  Now, Cornwalls, Belles, K-horns and the like...that's a different story.

 

In general though, it's a marketing ploy - and people gobble it right up.

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My intention on buying the speakers was needing new speakers. Noticing after the fact that I could bi-amp them was a bonus.  I am not using the left and right surround channels at all... so I was going to move the rear surrounds to those channels and use the rear surround channels to bi-amp with the front channels....

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FYI -  So here is my current system now.

 

Receiver:          Onkyo AV Receiver 7.1  TX-SR805
                        130 watts x 7 into 8 ohms (20-20,000 Hz) at 0.05% THD
                        24-Bit/96kHz A/D, 24-Bit/192kHz D/A

Fronts:              Klipsch RP-280f / 32-25,000 Hz +3dB / 150w RMS / 600w Peak

Center:              Klipsch RP-250c / 60-25,000 Hz +3dB / 125w RMS / 500w Peak

Rear:                Klipsch RS-62 II / 50Hz-24KHz +3dB / 150w RMS / 600w Peak

Sub:                 Klipsch R-115SW / 18-125 Hz / 400w RMS / 800w Peak

 

Just added the fronts and sub. Not wired in and powered on yet.

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26 minutes ago, IbizaFlame said:

How does the receiver know to only send the low frequencies to the woofers?

An active filter i would presume.  Just like it "knows" only to send signals below say 70 hz to your subwoofer. If the avr doesn't have these capabilities (a filter between the two amp channels) then yea i say what's the point?

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8 minutes ago, Prowlinger said:

FYI -  So here is my current system now.

 

Receiver:          Onkyo AV Receiver 7.1  TX-SR805
                        130 watts x 7 into 8 ohms (20-20,000 Hz) at 0.05% THD
                        24-Bit/96kHz A/D, 24-Bit/192kHz D/A

 

Fronts:              Klipsch RP-280f / 32-25,000 Hz +3dB / 150w RMS / 600w Peak

 

Center:              Klipsch RP-250c / 60-25,000 Hz +3dB / 125w RMS / 500w Peak

 

Rear:                Klipsch RS-62 II / 50Hz-24KHz +3dB / 150w RMS / 600w Peak

 

Sub:                 Klipsch R-115SW / 18-125 Hz / 400w RMS / 800w Peak

 

Just added the fronts and sub. Not wired in and powered on yet.

If it's 130 WPC all channels driven, and your towers are rated 150 continuous, you don't really need to worry about power at all...

 

8 minutes ago, babadono said:

An active filter i would presume.  Just like it "knows" only to send signals below say 70 hz to your subwoofer. If the avr doesn't have these capabilities (a filter between the two amp channels) then yea i say what's the point?

But it's still a passive crossover that decides on whether or not those frequencies get passed high and low - no? If so, what would be the point if you're still effectively using the same crossover with reduced wattage?

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Back to the original query, check out Monoprice. You'll have to buy speaker cable and Banana plugs and fab them yourself.

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Not disagreeing with you Ibiza, but a big part of this hobby is trying stuff out and see what it sounds like.  Prolinger, try bi wiring and see what you think.

 

Amazon has that Gotham stuff in 20 foot length.  But before you drop $240, consider this from Parts express.  I don't know if this is equivalent to Gotham wire, but it's what I'd use:

http://www.parts-express.com/carol-14-awg-4c-sjoow-power-cable-50-ft--100-587

 

With these:

http://www.parts-express.com/parts-express-banana-plug-pair-compression-type--091-330

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Just now, Prowlinger said:

Ok it appears to be a passive bi-amp.  I will just wire these up as normal and get this started on breakin phase.

Good idea.  Start jamming.  If you hear something you don't like...THEN lets talk more about wiring methods and doing fancy back-flips.

 

Enjoy!

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Ok probably dumb question -   Should I keep the 2 rear surrounds where they are (on amp) or move those to the L and R surrounds?  (to be technically 5.1) ?

The speakers are mounted up and behind listening location on the wall.

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It depends on their positioning (I think)...are they behind you or to your side?  If they're behind you - move them to rear surround, if they're beside you have them on surround (or side surround).

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I took a brief look at the manual for the AVR in question and i don't see where you adjust the filter for true bi amping. It must do something to the signals though because it is adamant about which output is used for the tweeter and which for the woofer. Glad to see you've moved along:)

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Well I will just skip the bi-amping. Cable is cheaper that way and I can get up and running asap.

 

Now where is a good (idiots guide) to setting up your subwoofer?   :)

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Just now, Prowlinger said:

Now where is a good (idiots guide) to setting up your subwoofer?   :)

If you find one, let us know!

 

It's wherever it sounds best to you.  Some like them in corners.  Others like them near their towers.  Some have them near their MLP.  I've seen a few have them randomly in the middle of the room.  Crawl around with it.  See/hear where it sounds best.  Wherever that happens is where it should be.

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3 minutes ago, IbizaFlame said:

If you find one, let us know!

 

It's wherever it sounds best to you.  ....  Crawl around with it.  See/hear where it sounds best.  Wherever that happens is where it should be.

 

must be the subwoofer crawl I've heard so much about.  place, test/listen, crawl, and replace.  wash, rinse, repeat?

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