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Destination Audio Speakers - Jubilee Lookalikes


kwingylee

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On 5/12/2017 at 10:50 PM, jwc said:

U got a picture of this?

$100K, but that tweeter isn't time aligned

 

 

It looks like someone pulled a card from one of the "boutique," uber tower speaker manu's deck.  

 

 

Aren't these just some large Wave guide variant ?

 

More here

 

http://hifiphilosophy.com/relacja-destination-audio-wizyta/

 

 

 

They encased the mid drivers with veneer? Looks like a bit of Euro or Asian traits following these.  

 

 

Destination-Audio-HiFi-Philosophy-005.jpg

 

 

Related image

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On 5/15/2017 at 7:21 PM, Ski Bum said:

 

Stasis.  Or a consumer driven circle jerk of sorts, where they rip each other off, wealth transfers around, but the society fails to advance.  I fear we may actually be on that planet already.

You want fries with that?:)

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On 5/18/2017 at 1:59 AM, moray james said:

Haha: I had to laugh at this one "three tweeters in series and triamped" I'm sure they are...not!

I don't get the joke. His system is tri-amped. Jubilee Bass, LeCleach Horn, and a triple stack of Heil Tweeters (which represent 63 square inches of diaphragm for very low distortion without a horn above 1 KHz typically). The Heils act as bi-poles, creating lots of depth in the sound. I own as many myself and looking forward to working with them, hence my curiosity.

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The top looks like a wood copy of Don Keele's JBL 2360 horn, which I used to own, until I got some K-402's which are much better. The JBL2446 is a very good driver designed to work with the JBL2360 (blue), but as you can see, the same driver on Roy Delgado's K-402 horn (red) is way smoother, wider band, and maintains pattern control over most of the band without having the "cupped hands" sound. Although next to the K-402, it was the second best big horn I ever owned and sounded darn good until it got bested by the K-402. So anyone that buys those "pretty" speakers for 95K are getting obsolete, second hand technology (with who knows what kind of bass performance) at 10 time the price. BTW, Don Keele, who I have met, got an Academy Award for that horn. I guess they no longer give out awards for horn design, otherwise, Roy clearly would deserve one or more for many of his designs for Klipsch.

JBL2446Jon2360vsK402.jpg

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33 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

I don't get the joke. His system is tri-amped. Jubilee Bass, LeCleach Horn, and a triple stack of Heil Tweeters (which represent 63 square inches of diaphragm for very low distortion without a horn above 1 KHz typically). The Heils act as bi-poles, creating lots of depth in the sound. I own as many myself and looking forward to working with them, hence my curiosity.

 

I think Moray read it the same way i did speaking only about the tweeters and not the system as a whole.

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17 hours ago, MetropolisLakeOutfitters said:


Couldn't be?  How did Volti patent the Jamboree then?

Actually RECIEVING a patent for something is NOT so easy!  In order to patent something the wording within the patent application must show that the item is unique, OR significantly different from previously patented items.  For example, one could  receive a patent for a bifurcated pathway double "S" horn bass horn speaker provided it was SIGNIFICANTLY different from one previously patented.  Unfortunately, there have already been patents granted for such an item.  So, if BY DESIGN it is NOT significantly different, then it must be significantly different in one or more OTHER ways, either in its design or within the wording of the patent application.  One could also attempt to patent the entire system, as a two-way system, or a CONVERTIBLE system (meaning it could start out as a one or two way system and be added to later on to become a better system as a three or four way system)....PROVIDING that it does not appear to be infringing on a previously-issued patent.

 

Such was case with the "convertible" system which had its patent granted in 1957 (after a wait of three years!) to William Hartsfield.  The key to HIS patent was that it was a CONVERTIBLE system, which could be upgraded over time as the owner could afford to do so, by simply changing out a few REMOVEABLE PARTS, and replacing those parts with other parts and adding more components along with a crossover network to support the additional components added.  Those removable parts were included in the patent application, because they HAD TO BE included in order to stand a chance at RECEIVING the patent.  This would make the system into a two-way, then a three-way, and later a four-way system, with everything happening within the SAME bass bin cabinet design.  IOW, if Hartsfield had not SOUGHT a patent on a "convertible loudspeaker", then he would never have been granted the patent to begin with.

 

After JBL had built the Hartsfield and marketed it for a number of years, its team of engineers CHANGED the build of the Bass bin significantly to the SECOND "Hartsfield" model...using the name for their new speaker, which was basically a bifurcated double "S" horn design, which they adopted PRIMARILY to cut down on production costs of the more complicated build involved in the ORIGINAL Hartsfield. See the pics below to get an idea of WHY William Hartsfield was originally granted a patent for his "convertible" Hartsfield speaker:  Figures 1, 2, and 3 show how the SINGLE driver fired forward, while the bass bin was powered off the backside of it....using the removable ducting element that allowed for that.  Figure 5 shows that it has been "converted" and now has a large woofer firing through a compression slot into the bass bin from a removable sealed enclosure, while a compression mid-horn is now firing forward. And you can see between the three pics which parts were removable to make it a CONVERTIBLE loudspeaker...all the way up to a four-way speaker, with additions of upper mid horn and tweeter.

 

Just for chits and giggles...look at the bottom pic, which shows HOW the Original Hartsfield speaker bass horn actually worked...and just above that in light blue, is the JBL engineer team re-design of the bass horn in the "new" Hartsfield which replaced the original Hartsfield bass horn lens sometime around 1960 or a couple of years earlier...significant change, huh?  If you put the JBL Hartsfield re-design up for comparison to the Jubilee bass bin design, you can more similarity that dis-similarity...both are bifurcated double "S" horns...with the MAJOR differences in the BASIC design being exactly WHERE the bifurcated pathway begins in the bass horn and how each units woofer(s) are fired into that bifurcated pathway.

 

Trying to actually get a patent awarded is not so much in the design OR the wording of the patent application...but is a combination of BOTH, if a patent is to actually be awarded.   Patent applications get turned down nowadays far more often then they get granted, simply because they are such a PITA to write up properly in order to get the patent awarded.  It is just so difficult nowadays because there are so many MORE THINGS which have been patented over the years and which a part of the patent application may infringe upon!  If you actually just READ the Klipschorn patent which PWK wrote, you will see how much hassle it was even back then!  

 

 

Hartsfield Ib.jpg

Hartsfield Ic.jpg

Hartsfield Ia.jpg

Hartsfield JBL redesign.jpg

Hartsfield Id.jpg

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1 hour ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

 BTW, Don Keele, who I have met, got an Academy Award for that horn. I guess they no longer give out awards for horn design, otherwise, Roy clearly would deserve one or more for many of his designs for Klipsch.

Roy would rather have a Bassmasters award, anyway!...or (better yet) be awarded a fancy new bass boat with its ice chests loaded with beer for his efforts!

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@$95K i do not believe my neighbors would remove the speed dial function to our local PD.

McMs / EAW stacks seem to do the job just fine :emotion-21:

 

My wife would no doubt take them in a heart beat, as long as quality tubers came with them ^_^

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On ‎5‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 8:15 AM, No.4 said:

I think he means they are part of a three way system that is tri amped.

Precisely. Thanks for coming to my defense. The ESS tweeters came out of AMT 1s and AMT 3. Each tower of 3 tweeters are connected in series and present about 12-16 ohms to a dynaco Mark 3 monoblock. They cover frequencies from 8K ad Up. The mids are cover by TAD TD-4001 and a LeCLeach horn. Please see my Avatar.

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On ‎5‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 3:44 PM, jason str said:

 

I think Moray read it the same way i did speaking only about the tweeters and not the system as a whole.

Yes, I can apologize for not making the system description more concise....but guys, give me a break about triamping 3 tweeters.....PLEEEEEASE.

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13 hours ago, kwingylee said:

Yes, I can apologize for not making the system description more concise....but guys, give me a break about triamping 3 tweeters.....PLEEEEEASE.

 

It was like 2:00 in the morning and i had to actually think about what you were saying, hard to grasp what you were implying is all. Did not mean to offend anybody.

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22 hours ago, sunnysal said:

is dana moore a forum member?  T

 

He was, and had a few run ins with some folks here. He has designed some other cabinets and received patents. He has sent me the plans for a couple of different designs.

 

soniphase.com

 

Bruce

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HDBR,

 

Thanks for the run down on the Hartsfield.  It confirmed my research:  There was the small woofer version convertible to the large woofer version.  Then the large woofer re-design.  Therefore, three versions of the bass bin.

 

Sometimes I’d wonder why the dual woofer Jubilee wasn’t PWK’s first design; it is so elegant.  Then I realized how expensive woofers were back in those days.  I imagine that Hartsfield felt the pinch and had the small woofer as a starter.  PWK’s first K-Horn used a small woofer too.  OTOH, the labor of cabinet makers must have been cheap.  All those angles, wow.  The Hartsfield was far more complicated than the K-Horn.

 

The lore is that Mr. Hartsfield contracted out the task of cutting pieces for his bass horn to two shops with each making different pieces.  This was so that neither shop would have enough info to duplicate his design.  Only the paranoid survive. 

 

My guess is that he did well to sell it to JBL.  Maybe they found it too expensive to make.  It's a beauty though.

 

WMcD

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Hey guys I never envisioned my thread would result in all of the great information that has been shared here so far. Thank you!

So I did attend the Destination Audio demo this past Sunday with about 25 members of the Chicago audio society. I got some clarification from the designer/owner of the Jubilee look alikes:

 

1. There are two 16" custom made woofers inside the bass cabinet.

2. The 2" compression driver is an old JBL that has been tweaked.

3. Mirror image tweeters on the outer section of the bass horn. They appeared to be JBL 2404Hs.

4. Crossover frequencies are 400Hz and 5000Hz. Second order on the lower and first order on the upper on the tweeters only. The midrange driver's upper response is wide open.

5. Great sound and dynamics when driven by the 1.8w mono amps..,,

6. Entire system is made in Poland and shipped here.

 

System sounded balance, smooth and dynamic. Imaging wise I wouldn't call it its strong suit. But it did produced great open sound across a broad area 

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On 5/18/2017 at 6:02 PM, ClaudeJ1 said:

A picture would be nice because that tweeter, which I hope is the original one from the AMT 1 series is pretty amazing for being NOT a horn.

 

What is the crossover point. Also assuming that in series you read between 12-18 ohms?

 

That is correct. In series they present a greater than 10 ohm load to the amplifiers. I also have a D.C. Blocking cap in the positive input. In my system, I cross them over at 8000 hz. I don't really feel the need to change that with the 4001s driving the mid horns. 

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