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HDMI to RCA best way?


Dave A

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I have a new Workstation I want to use as the source for audio with an Onkyo 8150. The graphics card is an Nvidia Quadro M4000 with four HDMI outputs and high quality audio capabilities. Will a simple HDMI to RCA adapter work? Would I be better off looking at a new TX 8270 which has a direct HDMI input set up for a PC already? What I want to do is have high quality audio but use my Workstation as the source.

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For video, you need a good digital to analog converter that will split the A/V signal. Signal degradation is massive from HDMI to RCA though, and most converters do a poor job. Audio is the same, you'd need a DAC with HDMI. They exist, but generally are not cheap.

 

The best option is to upgrade the AVR.

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5 hours ago, CECAA850 said:

I use HDMI to this then optical out to a DAC.  RCA from the DAC to your preamp. 

I use the same HDMI Audio Extractor as CECAA850. Also, got it from Monoprice. I'm happy with it.

 

Before I bought this HDMI audio "extractor"... I had been using a Dell laptop (via USB) as a dedicated, digital music server (variety of formats, incl. FLAC)... and had been shopping around for a USB dac, when I happened onto another thread (on this forum) where people were describing the benefits of this extractor. I ordered one, and... it works.

 

Many others on this forum know far more than I ever will, so please, I invite correction if I've got this wrong... But, USB (from an engineering standpoint) was never intended to carry high-fidelity audio, correct? To my point, USB carries not only the two channels on one line (compromise); it also carries the POWER on this same line! (Is anyone else squirming and fidgeting--just a little bit--at the thought of inviting a power supply to share conductors with your audio signal? Anyone? See: JITTER). This "sharing" of the infrastructure was done as an efficient compromise--to do what was in the best interest of ALL the interests of this general-purpose, do-all, peripheral interface connection. And it does so, with aplomb. The USB is a great connection; the best, for what it does. However, almost overnight, USB became the ubiquitous replacement (and improvement) over all existing predecessors (anybody remember 14 pin?) for personal computer connections to peripherals. Just like the Microsoft Windows Operating System, it found itself with the largest user base, despite the fact it was not the most stable, powerful and reliable of operating systems. With its omnipresent, new status--manufacturers used it for everything... regardless of suitability. It was cheap, easy and nobody complained. 3rd party hardware quickly followed, to de-crappify the USB signal.

 

Anyway, why crap on your audio signal if you can avoid it? As I understand it, HDMI, in its origins, is inherently more suited for high-fidelity audio than is USB; and this is NOT a criticism of USB. USB is unsurpassed at its intended purpose. Its just not the best interface for every imaginable connection; including high-fidelity audio.

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16 hours ago, Dave A said:

Will a simple HDMI to RCA adapter work?

I don't know if these really exist? You see pictures of these things on Amazon: they've got an HDMI plug on one end, and RCAs on the other. I got curious and ordered one myself... not knowing. It did nothing. It seems HDMI-out is looking for a "handshake" of sorts, from HDMI on the receiving end--before it works. That's why the extractor works: It takes care of the HDMI handshake before it outputs to analogue.

 

The only thing I could see those simple adapters for is to send an analogue (RCA) output upstream to an HDMI receiving end. I don't have that setup.

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10 hours ago, Endo said:

To my point, USB carries not only the two channels on one line (compromise); it also carries the POWER on this same line! (Is anyone else squirming and fidgeting--just a little bit--at the thought of inviting a power supply to share conductors with your audio signal? Anyone?

 

Anyway, why crap on your audio signal if you can avoid it? As I understand it, HDMI, in its origins, is inherently more suited for high-fidelity audio than is USB; and this is NOT a criticism of USB. USB is unsurpassed at its intended purpose. Its just not the best interface for every imaginable connection; including high-fidelity audio.

 

It is a fair criticism of USB, one I've seen discussed many times.

 

Here is a USB product that defeats the problem of carrying power along with an audio signal.  I don't know if it works or not and I am not recommending it as I have never used it.  I am just saying it is there.

 

Quote

 

This is a 3.3 feet/1 meter Data only USB cable with the VCC +5V wire disconnected so no power will be passed (no power line noise for higher quality audio). This version has the ground wire disconnected as well. Note: your DAC must be able to power itself and work without VCC signals. Most high end DAC can do this. I have tried this cable on: PS Audio Directstream DAC (works extremely well with this cable)

https://www.amazon.com/Data-Only-Audiophile-USB-Ungrounded/dp/B00WFF5FZS

 

 

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Thanks for the comments all. OK rather than going through all these hoops what about just getting the TX 8270? My Quadro M4000 graphics card with four HDMI output ports is a powerful sound and visual creator and the TX 8270 has an HDMI port there for use with a PC connection. Rather than looking into ways to make the TX 8150 work what about the TX 8270 which is designed for this? For my money if I am going to spend half the cost of something designed to do a job to jerry rig doing the job I would rather spend more and do it right. Onkyo says I can run direct from HDMI port on the PC to the TX 8270 HDMI port. Looking at some of these magical black boxes online and holy cow, $200+ for a little black box???

  In the for what it is worth category. Using the audio jack from the PC to the RCA jacks to the back side of the TX 8150 yields some strange alterations to lossless and FLAC at times with high bit rates. The USB flash drive direct into the front USB port on the TX 8150 does not do this so clearly in my eyes the RCA set up lacks some things.

Onkyo TX8270 rear view.jpg

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Toslink from your PC motherboard is the least expensive route to go w/your existing TX-8150, by far.  I don't know that you'd be able to notice much of a difference between running optical out from your PC to your TX-8150 vs. HDMI out from the GPU to the TX-8270 as you're essentially using the same audio equipment for playback as both of these format-signals are digital. Aside from the HDMI connectivity w/4K and HDCP 2.2 support/HDR with the TX-8270, they essentially have the same audio-specs with the exception of the TX-8150 having 135wpc and the TX-8270 100pwc; not a deal-breaker for Klipsch speakers by any means.

 

For less than the price of the TX-8270, you could purchase a dedicated PCI(e) soundcard that is far superior to either your PC's onboard (motherboard) or GPU "soundchips", giving you far more flexibility, depth, soundstage, etc. for your speakers, providing you have the space/slots available on your motherboard and in your case and run the card to your existing TX-8150.

 

Some examples and they also give customer testimonials:

 

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829271004  (PCI only)

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132072

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102050

 

These cards have both, RCA and Toslink connectivity options and op-amps that can be swapped out, so you can change the "sound-signature" of the card from the stock sound.

 

Unless you'd be utilizing the HDMI-ports on the TX-8270 for AV purposes for a 4K monitor/TV/UHD setup (now or at some later point-in-time), it would be a wasted "upgrade" in some sense.

 

 

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What hoops?  Seriously, your best bang for buck is the HDMI audio extractor and you don't have to buy anything else.  Do not run audio directly from the PC to your RCA jacks.  It is unlikely you will not be satisfied with the results.  50 bucks and you will have much better sound.  https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-BlackbirdTM-2-channel-Audio-Extractor/dp/B01B5FR8A8   I can tell you that toslink directly from my PC doesn't sound near as good as using the HDMI to the extractor to the Toslink.  

 

 

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On 05/26/2017 at 7:33 PM, Endo said:

To my point, USB carries not only the two channels on one line (compromise); it also carries the POWER on this same line! (Is anyone else squirming and fidgeting--just a little bit--at the thought of inviting a power supply to share conductors with your audio signal? Anyone? See: JITTER).

USB 1&2 use four wires. Ground and Vcc use two, while the other two are data + & -. USB type C is better, 24 pins, two duplicate 12 connections, so you can plug in either way, like the Apple Thunderbolt/Lightning connector. On the type C, the data is Transmit +- and Receive +-. It should be a lot cleaner. A lot will also depend on the driver used for a given device.

 

Bruce

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3 hours ago, Marvel said:

USB 1&2 use four wires. Ground and Vcc use two, while the other two are data + & -. USB type C is better, 24 pins, two duplicate 12 connections

^Thank you. I wrote the word "line" when its actually multiple conductors within a single sheath; that was sloppy language. Compliance with the HDMI standard calls for active electronics to have provision for an external power source; effectively isolating the digital audio from the power line. USB does not, correct? I'm thinking those two should not be in bed together.

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