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3-channel Stereo


JohnA

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3 minutes ago, Coytee said:

They demo'ed this once at HQ in Indy.

 

My gut feeling of it would be that I personally, wouldn't like it when listening to something that panned hard left and hard right.

 

(think some Queen where the voices bounce back/forth)

 

Though they didn't demo any music like that, I had the feeling it would not bounce from left to right but would go from center to left or center to right...  (or something odd relative to the original signal)

 

I certainly might be misunderstanding how it works but that was my thoughts when I heard it.

I think PWK was concerned mainly with the "hole in the middle" phenomenon when the main left and right speakers are far apart while listening to a recording that was trying to be faithful to the way an orchestra sounds live. As opposed to what some recording engineer or producer thought would sound cool when he discovered the panning knob on the mixing board.

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2 minutes ago, Coytee said:

They demo'ed this once at HQ in Indy.

 

My gut feeling of it would be that I personally, wouldn't like it when listening to something that panned hard left and hard right.

 

(think some Queen where the voices bounce back/forth)

 

Though they didn't demo any music like that, I had the feeling it would not bounce from left to right but would go from center to left or center to right...  (or something odd relative to the original signal)

 

I certainly might be misunderstanding how it works but that was my thoughts when I heard it.

 

This would depend entirely on how loud you set the center channel level control. The circuit in DFH gives the listener total control of the soundstage. For the above-mentioned Queen song, you could simply turn the center level all (or nearly all) the way down to maintain maximum left/right separation. But my experience with similarly-mixed rock and pop recordings back when I had my 3-channel system was that even they sounded better with the center speaker at a decent volume — it clearly focuses anything that's mixed dead-center or nearly dead-center. The point is that it gives you complete control of the stereo soundstage, and you can dial in the amount of center speaker until the soundstage sounds just right no matter what recording you're listening to. You'd be amazed how much better each and every recording will sound.

 

Of course, you must set up your system with the little summing circuit box placed next to the listening position, where you can futz with it while you're listening. 

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5 minutes ago, hsosdrummer said:

Of course, you must set up your system with the little summing circuit box placed next to the listening position, where you can futz with it while you're listening. 

Yea we need a remote control for this whiz bang:)

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Most avr's can do multichannel music using a center channel.  For stereo sources, they will correctly convert 2 ch to 3 or 5, 7, X playback.  I'm using my SC 99 right

 

 

 

 

 

Most avr's can convert 2 ch to multichannel music with no problem.  I convert 2 ch stereo all the time to multichannel music.  It comes down to whether you think one technology is vastly superior to the other.:)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, derrickdj1 said:

Most avr's can do multichannel music using a center channel.  For stereo sources, they will correctly convert 2 ch to 3 or 5, 7, X playback.  I'm using my SC 99 right

 

Most avr's can convert 2 ch to multichannel music with no problem.  I convert 2 ch stereo all the time to multichannel music.  It comes down to whether you think one technology is vastly superior to the other.:)

 

Agreed. For the past 20 years I've listened to music exclusively via my Klipsch THX-certified system (KT-LCRs and KT-DSs, with the surrounds rewired for bipolar operation). For the past 10 years I've used my Lexicon DC-1 processor's Logic 7 mode, which does a fantastic job of creating a believable surround-sound environment with every 2-channel program (and even some mono programs) I've thrown at it. As good as my old 3-channel Khorn/Cornwall system was, I enjoy the way my current 5.1-channel system presents the soundstage even more. Now if my room only had corners (and were about twice as large) I could have the best of both worlds...

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You should all do a search on DRBILL................I was looking for info on the PWK miniboxes he used to build but I found some unbelievable stuff.  All you need to do is read a couple of threads he posted in.  I decided not to resurrect for the moment.

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I personally don't care for the wall of sound... I loose the pinpoint element of 2-channel, and there can be a serious smearing of image though the initial impression is one of immersion.

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14 hours ago, babadono said:

So you put the left channel in one input and the right in another and the output was a summed signal? Did you use TS or TRS plugs?

 

Yes, it summed the LR signal. I don't remember what plugs I used. I had this setup for about a year before I decided to just go all the way and make the setup a HT.

To be honest, a good AVR or HT pre/pro will do a much better job of this kind of thing IMO. But the Rolls did fine.

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I have a Marantz sr7007 AVR. in my family room HT.  I can't even adjust the levels of the various speakers when music is playing let alone expect it to generate an accurate level adjustable center channel signal when playing 2 channel sources.

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I think the Trinaural Processor is the sort of thing I was looking for.  But, it is for a guy in SoCal, in another thread, asking about setting up a Japanese style Listening Room in his business.  He has a room with high ceilings and a 30' wall. 

 

Thanks for your help!  I remember some McIntosh preamps had a center channel out, but he already has a C22 preamp, so I would not recommend changing it. 

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I looked around the Radio Shack catalog website for your box.  There are so many catalogs and they're so long I didn't get very far.

OTOH I found page 150 of the 1951 catalog.

PWK had stated once that K-Horns were sold through RS.  Was he talking about the licensed Brociner or the Hope unit? 

 

 

\

1951 Radio Shack page 150.jpg

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Build one, taking the output off the speaker level outputs of your amplifier, and dropping them to a summed line-level input for a blended mono signal, plus attenuator, for your dedicated 3rd amp and center channel loudspeaker.  If your amp has line-level outputs, you can also take advantage of those.  27k ohms comes to mind for the necessary series resistance, but, as I said, it was a very long time ago.

 

We discussed PK's mini-box many times (an equal number -- many -- years ago).  You might check the archives.  I tried it one Saturday morning for a quick weekend morning project, and absolutely loved the result. 

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There was (perhaps still is) a Lexicon DC-1 being offered in Garage Sale.  I have owned two of them, and will never part with one that was very professionally modified by another forum member.  I'll leave the specifics of that out here, but the stock version is a very competent multi-channel performer.  There are various listening modes available, including three-channel (RLC).  The Lexicon was recommended to me on the day I mentioned my having built PK's mini-box.  That was under a different handle, which was my full name, but the post is still out there, including responses from a number of veteran forum members.  Those were interesting times! ;) 

 

The Lexicon is a supremely transparent sounding line stage that also has a stereo bypass and subwoofer out with selectable crossover, as well as the same for main, side, and rear surround speakers.  Once one gets used to the menu tress, the amount of flexibility it provides is really pretty amazing; and the one for sale in GS is priced very fairly.  They were a few thousand dollars when they first came out in the mid 90s (if memory serves me right here with regard to their introduction).

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On ‎6‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 1:55 PM, John Albright said:

I think the Trinaural Processor is the sort of thing I was looking for.  But, it is for a guy in SoCal, in another thread, asking about setting up a Japanese style Listening Room in his business.  He has a room with high ceilings and a 30' wall. 

 

Thanks for your help!  I remember some McIntosh preamps had a center channel out, but he already has a C22 preamp, so I would not recommend changing it. 

 

PM me if your customer would be interested in a Trinaural Processor. I have one that I got direct from James Bongiorno before he died. You may also contact them through their website to purchase one through a distributer. SST is now owned and operated by Wyred4Sound.

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If you have an AVR with DTS Neo 6 music processing, try using it with the surround channels turned off. I find it works quite well. My understanding is that it leaves the left and right channels intact and untouched, while deriving a summed center channel. Turning off the surrounds eliminates having instruments sounding as if they are behind and to the sides of you. Voila, 3 channel stereo?

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