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heresy 1 impendance


ryradio

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I have a pair of heresy 1 hwo from early 80s. I assumed were 4 ohm because the number "4" was written in ink in the corner of both decals. However i realized tonight they may be 8ohm. 

 

Are they 4 or 8?

 

Ps ive been playing them at 4, have i been missing out?

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They are 8 ohm nominal (could vary 3 to 10 ohms at certain frequencies during operation) which means the resistance can swing lower.  Speakers aren't stable to ohm loads that is related to amplifiers.  The 4 on the model decal has nothing to do with the impedance.  If you are using a tube amp use the tap that they sound best on.   

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You should look here for a curve of the impedance of the H1. 

 

You have to scroll down a bit.

 

This appeared in a Dope from Hope regarding amplifier distortion. 

 

The peak a the low end is caused by the mechanical resonance of the box and woofer mass.  The high end shows an increased impedance because of the effect of the autotransformer. 

 

WMcD

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I forget which publication it was, but one of the magazines that reviewed the HIII made some remarks about how a case was to be made that the Heresy is 5-ohm (and thus not as sensitive as 97db.) They dug into it a bit but brushed the topic off by saying they were the most sensitive speakers at the tester's home regardless.

 

I seem to recall that some older Heresy spec sheets said they were 16-ohm, was that only for more early speakers?

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Depending on the woofer, most Heresy Is could comfortably be called 16 ohms.  If you are running a tube amp, run them on the 8 ohm tap, at least, and give the 16 a try.  My '79 Heresies both have a "32" hand written in the upper right corner of the build tag.  While it could mean anything, I will posit that they were the 32nd pair Mr. Bradford tested that day/week.  HDRBuilder was working there about then and might know the truth.

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The K22 measured about a 10Ω minimum around 150hz in the pre-1985 Heresy. They had a huge impedance peak around 70hz, and rolled-off below there at about 12dB/oct (they were specified as being 5dB down at 50hz).

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

The "4" has nothing to do with ohms.  If the "4" is on the label corner of both speakers, it is because that is how the people in final assembly "paired-up" speakers for shipping back in those days.  Sometimes there might have been numerous pairs which looked almost identical because the outer veneer on the "box" panels was basically "sliced" from the same boards.  So the final assembly folks tried to pair them as closely as possible...this even happened for the birch Heresys in those days.  Your speakers are the 4th pair of that particular model which went through final assembly that day.

 

Klipsch Non-Industrial Line speakers are generally "nominally 8 ohm" speaker systems, even though separate components within them may not be so...or separate elements may not be so (as in the K-horn). For amplification purposes the setting should be 8 ohm.  The original literature shipped with the Heresys from that time period stated the same thing.  If I remember correctly the (heaven forbid I type this brand name on here, BUT...) BOSE 901 was originally shipped with literature stating it was nominally 4 ohm...the same for THAT COMPANY's 501 model.  LOL!

 

P.S.:  I never owned any Bose speakers, but had to deal with them at times for others...I was never a fan of Bose, and always saw them as more of a "gimmick" than accurate sound reproduction. And before I worked at Klipsch, I ran JBL speakers (which I sold after getting my first pair of Heresys).  My FIRST JBL speakers bought new were 4311 monitors, and I also had four JBL L36 speakers drop-shipped to my parents' home when I bought the JBL 4311 pair.  The L36's were a great "more bang for the buck" model, as were all the other JBL "L" series "economy-line" speakers.  The L100 was more-or-less an economical alternative for the 4311 monitors, and made JBL a lot of money...but it was HEAVILY-marketed as such, too! ( never liked those L100 foam grilles...BRIGHT ORANGE WAFFLED Foam???...what in the HELLo were they taking when that decision was approved???)

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And Radio Shack copied the waffled pattern, and sold in rolls. 

 

HDBRbuilder, can you describe the subjective difference in the sound of the 4311 and the Heresy? 

 

I had a pair of JBL 030s (15" D130 extended range and 075 ring radiator tweeter, x-over at 2,500 Hz) in big JBL C-34 rear loaded horn cabinets, located in room corners.  Compared to my current Klipschorns:  Both were equally bright, but in very different ways.  The 030s were harsh with most program material, but the harshness tended to go away when bass boost was applied to restore the balance.  They were not at all "flat," and the bass rolled off below 80 Hz.  They were very clean and precise sounding.  The Klipschorns are even more clean and precise, harsh on only a few poorly recorded CDs, and not at all on Blu-ray, DVD, DVD-A, and SACD recordings.  The Khorns have good bass extending smoothly to more than an octave below the 030s, and "useable," (to steal JBL's term to describe a Klipsch) to 24 Hz, with considerable attenuation.  Both are very efficient and dynamic, but the Khorns are more so.

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16 hours ago, garyrc said:

HDBRbuilder, can you describe the subjective difference in the sound of the 4311 and the Heresy? 

Simply put, the Heresy out-performed the 4311 Monitors in every way...more bass...more clarity and detail to mid and tweeter output...MUCH MORE efficient...you name it...my Heresys just ate the 4311's lunch, IMHO!  Even with the short-throw (excursion) woofer in the Heresy, its (more or less) sealed enclosure allowed for more bass performance than the 4311 could muster.  But, also keep in mind that the comparison between the two models was based upon what my H/K 900+ receiver could muster...rated at 32 WPC in quad, four channels driven (but amp section could be "strapped" to put out 90 WPC in stereo mode!).  The JBL 4311 speakers were actually better performers with more power, but still not as good of a speaker as the Heresy, IMHO!

 

Studio monitors are generally designed to be as small as possible and generally are mounted between the ceiling and table-top height oriented horizontally, firing downwards, for studio use...and studio mixing rooms were generally not very large back in those days, so being used as floor-standing speakers was not REALLY part of the design parameters of the 4311 Monitors.  To get the best sound from 4311 monitors used as floor-standing speakers, you really needed to set them up with the woofer towards the floor...IOW...upside-down.

 

As usual, design parameters tend to drive the performance end of things.

 

Sometimes I wish I still had those 4311's...just because of what the market is for them in great condition nowadays...but prices fluctuate from about what they cost me when new (about 500 bucks a pair in early 1975) to about twice that...which is still generally more than what prices for used Heresys tend to be, from that same era, on average.  But My flame twins only cost me about half of what the 4311's did (with Klipsch employee discount making my Heresys cost 40% of MSRP).

 

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"the Heresy out-performed the 4311 Monitors in every way...more bass.."

 

Don't think so.

 

I sold JBL and Klipsch. At one time (1979~1980) Klipsch told us we were the largest single dealer they had, we were also the largest single JBL dealer in the midwest (including Chicago, St Louis, KC, Twin Cities, etc.).

 

The JBL had better bass.

 

The Heresy sounded better in the mids and HF until the amp ran out of power (assuming it was on the floor up against a wall).

 

The mids and HF on the JBL started gradually distorting and when the amp started clipping it was a lot less noticeable than the Heresy (when the amp clipped the distortion went through the roof).

 

I has access to measuring equipment (delay gated), and was amazed at how good the Heresy measured off-axis (as you would be while listening). Both speakers were quite flat (the JBL having better bass).

 

I talked to PWK about using a better tweeter (like the JBL 077), Paul pointed out that it cost 5x that of the EV unit.

 

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HDBRbuilder, did you have Heresy Is or IIs?

 

How many dB different in sensitivity are the JBL 4311 and the Klipsch Heresy?

 

djk, how powerful an amp were you driving into clipping with these two speakers?

 

I have heard Heresy Is many times, and have Heresy IIs as surrounds, but only heard the 4311 a few times, once at the Different Fur Trading Company, where they sounded great with a big amp, as monitors for a synthesizer, at Sound Genesis where the La Scalas wiped them, and at the Tower Records Classical room, where the clerk complained that they were terrible.  I bought a Paganini violin CD at TR that day, and found that the one badly recorded selection sounded better with their 4311s (which veiled some of the harshness, IMO) than with my Klipschorns at home, BUT all of the other selections sounded better on the Khorns, with more detail, texture and "air."

 

djk, did JBL ever sell their speakers to another company, like Klipsch?  I wonder if they would have permitted their 077 to be used in a Klipsch.  I'd  love to hear them in a Klipschorn, just to see.  A wood worker I knew of built Khorns to order with JBL 075s instead of the K77s, but I never got to hear them.  There were home brew Altecs with A7 guts and either JBL 075s or 077s on top.  I heard one of those, briefly.  If you will permit audiophile talk, that one sounded "silvery," while the Khorns with stock parts sounded "golden."   . 

 

 



 
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16 hours ago, djk said:

"the Heresy out-performed the 4311 Monitors in every way...more bass.."

 

Don't think so.

 

I sold JBL and Klipsch. At one time (1979~1980) Klipsch told us we were the largest single dealer they had, we were also the largest single JBL dealer in the midwest (including Chicago, St Louis, KC, Twin Cities, etc.).

 

The JBL had better bass.

 

The Heresy sounded better in the mids and HF until the amp ran out of power (assuming it was on the floor up against a wall).

 

The mids and HF on the JBL started gradually distorting and when the amp started clipping it was a lot less noticeable than the Heresy (when the amp clipped the distortion went through the roof).

 

I has access to measuring equipment (delay gated), and was amazed at how good the Heresy measured off-axis (as you would be while listening). Both speakers were quite flat (the JBL having better bass).

 

I talked to PWK about using a better tweeter (like the JBL 077), Paul pointed out that it cost 5x that of the EV unit.

 

I answered truthfully, as requested.  Opinions differ.  Upstream components differ, too. I was using my H/K 900+ receiver switched for 32WPC, Technics SL 1300 turntable with JVC 4MD-20X CD-4 cartridge (marketed by JVC, but actually MADE by Audio-Technica), Teac A 2340-R Reel deck, and Technics RS676AUS cassette deck in those days (all of which were bought new in 1975 and I still have and use to some extent).  I DID NOT use any "measuring equipment" other than my own ears.  With both speaker sets driven, it was obvious to me that the Heresy 1's I used were the better speakers (they are my flame twins).  The 4311 Monitors' brilliance and presence controls were set "flat" , as were all the "tonal" controls on the receiver...because that's how I always have ran the receiver.  Granted, it was nowhere near the most ideal listening environment...tiled concrete slab with speakers sitting on it, totally un-treated room.  The Speakers were toed-in and each set was between 9"-12" out from flanking walls at the room corners they were in.  The JBL's were right side up, as were the Heresys...I also flipped the JBLs to upside down with tops on towels...bass performance was improved oriented that way. I stand by my evaluation of early 1978. 

 

The 4311 monitors were sold as were the four L36 speakers simply because I did not have room for all of them where I was living at the time.  The purchaser of ONE pair of the L36's used them for many years, but listens only to his Cornwalls nowadays.  He still has the L36's, but the foam woofer surrounds are history and the oak veneer on the sides has lifted in a number of spots from the LDF material the boxes were made out of...most likely due to out-gassing of formaldehyde from the LDF panels, causing the veneer glue bond to separate.  I lost track of the purchaser of the other L36 pair and the 4311's over time.

 

As for driving amp sections to clipping...I never do that because I want my equipment to last a long time, to INCLUDE the speakers.  The lower efficiency of the 4311 monitors pretty much REQUIRES 100+ wpc amps to get them really rolling...they are "happy" with more power...and happy speakers perform better.  While I had the monitors, they were never ran hard...since (a VERY conservatively-rated) 32 wpc is all I had.  For me, though...25 wpc is all I really need...and my flame twins still love it. 

 

A large part of the "genius" of the original "heritage" line was that  PWK was able to use ONLY TWO woofers (one 12" and one 15"), ONLY ONE midrange compression driver, and ONLY ONE tweeter, along with a variety of in-house-designed mid-range horn lenses, to market an ENTIRE LINE of loudspeakers, including the Heresy, Cornwall, LaScala, Klipschorn, and Belle Klipsch models.  Due to this, his VOLUME of particular parts ordered was high, which lowered cost-per-unit of parts shipped to the plant (if for no other reason than shipping costs alone!).  Simply put: He did more with less.  PLUS he proved that it COULD BE DONE.  None of the components were considered "top of the lines available", but all met the parameters he needed, for what he designed and marketed...and had long-term RELIABILITY.  People (to include PWK, himself!) have said that he "was no businessman"...I beg to differ! 

 

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