Jubilees- much bigger sounding than my Khorns and LaScalas- now with REW curves!!! A huge thanks to MetropolisLakeOutfitters and Chris A!!!

[Rxonmymind]

4 hours ago, Chris A said:

Like many other skills, with just a little time and effort the tasks turn into automatic action--not unlike riding a bike, swimming, or playing a musical instrument.  Lots of people have learned--probably because it's advantageous in the long term to know how.  Balancing loudspeaker EQ (using measurements) and even rebalancing the music I play (demastering): I've found these to be useful skills. 

 

With the increasing commonality of DSP crossover use, more and more "audio aficionados" are developing the ability to use the freeware tools.  All it takes is a PC/laptop, a measurement microphone (<$100) and a DSP crossover, all of which can reused again and again: they're not tied to a particular set of loudspeakers.  This is just like amplifiers, preamps, and media players: the economics of DSP crossovers are now attractive because of their reusability and their ability to significantly improve sound.

 

Chris

Dsp is almost "magic" in the way it works. I spent quite the $$$$ on my car audio sound system where the dsp alone was $1k. Here is the thing with dsp in my experience. 

It was able to raise the bass..wait for it...UP TO the dash. Yes, the mid bass from the car doors and bass from the back of the SUV was "moved" forward and up through slick computer trickery. All through time delays, bass management etc.  I was blown away. The advantage of this was using LESS amplifier power as the music was dead center a bit to the right of you. Depth was unbelievable as the sound seemed all the way to the front of the hood. The dash became a concert hall which on occasion made me look, lol, as if I'd see the players on the dash.

 

Music didn't have to be blasted. How accurate is it? On a CD with Ray Charles and Elton John I could"see" them shoulder to shoulder sharing the mic playing on the same piano in front of my dash. I could "see" a pianist playing it sideways while turning to the unseen camera to sing. (I searched for her video and blow me down that's EXACTLY how she was playing)

Granted a sound circuit judge and one that teacher other in Northern California did the dsp work AND he happened to have the exact same vehicle as I did. Imagine his time & effort that he put in to dial in his system? Lol. Mine was plug & play.

My point being dsp can bring HUGE audio gains like nothing else. Not correct speaker placement, exotic speakers, mega amps or silly cables. 

In my next home theater I'll have the same company out to dial it in and save on buying exotic speaker. Dsp is where it's at.

[Chris A]

Sounds like a satisfied customer...

 

In my experience, most applications of using DSP crossovers in home audio usually don't involve such large challenges in steering the LF delays/phase to swing the apparent location of the source of sound.  In an automobile, there are some real acoustic challenges.

 

Chris

[Rxonmymind]

True Chris. But the same discipline applies I'd think. Reflections, size of room, seating area, is there a kids bedroom directly above the home theater room etc...

 

Lucky for me I had a circuit judge dial in my system. Folks take it from two judges that reviewed my system.  It's 80% dsp and 20% speakers. The most gains you'll get from any audio is correct calibration of sound or as they say tuning. Tuning, tuning, tuning. Get it? One can make average speakers sound REALLY good and I know a few who have sneakily done this in sound competitions and won. No small feat. So don't think you need to constantly upgrade your speakers. You don't.  Try a good quality dsp and you'll think your average speakers are 5x the cost and you'll get 10x the enjoyment. For the record I have very good stock Pioneer speakers and have been willing to throw down another $3k in botique speakers. I went to the owner of one shop where I auditioned his speakers wanting to buy but he said " Let's go listen to what you have" bringing his CD. (The ONLY person who had ever done this.) After 10 minutes of listening he stated " A little low in the 6 khz but overall really good. I don't have anything to sell you that would dramatically improve your sound. Maybe 1 or 3% but you'd be throwing money for a small return" then he asked who dialed my system. I told him. He laughed and that same person taught him to be a sound competition judge. 

Talk about integrity. Turning down a sale. 

Get a DSP and pay a reputable company to dial it in. It'll blow your mind with what you have now. 

[Chris A]

There is a qualitative difference with Jubs over say, Khorns, however.  I've heard those differences--and they're not close.  Things like apparent source width (ASW), clarity (based on better directivity control to lower frequencies), control of early reflections due to better directivity control and room absorption treatment, size of the "sweet spot" (in the case of Jubs it's the entire width of the room), and lower modulation distortion of horn-loaded bass over say, direct radiating bass, etc. These are things that DSP cannot fix, and they make a huge difference in sound.

 

However, I have done several trades with configurations of center loudspeakers between the Jubs (about 6 different configurations).  Once the configuration is dialed-in in terms of phase/group delay at the crossover regions, and carefully EQed flat, the timbre of the loudspeaker suddenly matches the Jubs on either side.  I've demonstrated this many times for several people.  It's not the material in passive network capacitors that determines the sound, but the changes in the frequency response that determines the changes in timbre and overall presentation.  (Because of the minimum phase nature of the situation, changes in frequency response also change the phase/group delay: once you correct the frequency response, you also correct the phase/group delay response.)

 

Chris

[Chris A]

Also, in the case of Jubilees, I actually don't recommend using someone other than those people who have dealt with Jubs in the past.  All the "audio professionals" that I've met are uniformly dumbfounded when they actually listen to Jubs, and typically are far behind Jub owners in terms of knowing how to dial them in.  I recommend that the owners themselves learn how to do it. 

 

For things like acoustic treatments: as long as sufficient near field absorption is placed along the adjacent walls intersecting the K-402 and Jubilee bass bin mouths, then the other far field treatments are well within the experience base of these professionals, I've found.

 

YMMV.

 

Chris

[Speed]

On 7/3/2017 at 2:04 PM, Chris A said:

You might try aiming the K-402s down at the "1" to "1.25" position on the mechanism slide scale on the back of the K-402 stand

I would like to try this, as I am only 12 ft. away in my listening area. The rear adjustment is easy, but there is no flexible bracket for the front. Do you just loosen the two front mounting screws, adjust the rears and re tighten the fronts ? I'm afraid to  put any undue stress on the 402's.

[Chris A]

The two adjustment nuts/bolts are on the back of the K-402 mechanism right on either side of the compression driver.  Just loosen the two nuts, slide the mechanism up on the scale on the left (looking toward to the front of the horn), then lock it down again.  You're done...

 

[babadono]

To prove I really did visit @Trentster5172 and his Jubs. That's yours truly on the left. Thanks again for the audition.

[Trentster5172]

You bet!  Awesome!!!

[babadono]

Yea I finally figured out how to get pictures from a text message into the main picture gallery on the phone and then downloaded to a computer. Don't know if all phones are this convoluted but what a PITA

[dtel]

14 hours ago, babadono said:

To prove I really did visit @Trentster5172 and his Jubs. That's yours truly on the left. Thanks again for the audition.

Well now we all know what you look like, but really it's always fun visiting meeting others and hearing something new. 

[CECAA850]

On 10/11/2017 at 3:26 PM, dtel said:

Well now we all know what you look like, but really it's always fun visiting meeting others and hearing something new. 

Um he was at Hope this year lol.

[Ceptorman]

2 minutes ago, CECAA850 said:

Um he was at Hope this year lol.

That must have been before you made him a drink!

[babadono]

1 hour ago, CECAA850 said:

Um he was at Hope this year lol.

Glad you said this. I thought about it but thought I'd sound like an a hole. I think when @dtel said "all" he meant others. Remember I was helping push the KP-600 stacks in before the rain and said something like "I wish I could do more".

[babadono]

1 hour ago, Ceptorman said:

That must have been before you made him a drink!

I was still there after he made me a drink

[CECAA850]

12 minutes ago, babadono said:

Glad you said this. I thought about it but thought I'd sound like an a hole.

I have no issues with sounding like an a-hole.

[richieb]

9 minutes ago, CECAA850 said:

I have no issues with sounding like an a-hole.

 

Yes, we know ---. Wouldn't want it any other way -

[CECAA850]

13 minutes ago, richieb said:

Yes, we know

Few if any would disagree.

[dtel]

On 10/13/2017 at 2:14 PM, CECAA850 said:

On 10/11/2017 at 3:26 PM, dtel said:

Well now we all know what you look like, but really it's always fun visiting meeting others and hearing something new. 

Um he was at Hope this year lol.

I remember he was there but now everybody knows, I am terrible with names but remember faces. I remember because it's a name I remember reading his post and have talked with. Plus I mispronounced his name and my wife corrected me, like she always does.

 

[CECAA850]

4 minutes ago, dtel said:

I am terrible with names

That's an issue I have as well.  I can remember stupid crap from 40 years ago but I need to see someone every day for 6 weeks before I remember their name.