Clint.Asher Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 Hello Forum! I originally posted this in ask the historian by mistake. Here we go again. I've only been a member here a short time and have already received a ton of good help so I thought I'd bounce a couple of thoughts off the group and get some feedback. I'm in the process of upgrading my home theater. I just bought a Marantz SR7011. I've up graded my front sound stage from Klipsch KF-28s and a KC-25 to KLF-30s and a C-7 (with Crites upgrades on the way for Mid Drivers, Ti tweets and all 3 crossovers). I have upgraded from R-15Ms to KS-525-THX's for side surrounds. I am replacing an old pair of Polk Audio monitor 70S with my KF-28s in the rear (Open to feedback and recommendations on if this is okay, or if I need to get better rears). My current plan is to set a pair if KC-25s on the KLF 30's in the front aimed up to try to match the effect of a pair of RP-140s for front atmos, and do the same thing with the RM-15s on top of the KF-28s in the rear for rear atmos. It llooks like about a 22 degree angle from what I've read. Obviously there will be much experimentation. The Fronts, Center, Side surrounds, and rear surrounds are all being driven by Crown XLS 1502 amps and I intend to use the marantz to drive the atmos, although I do have an older Crown 602 and a Crest (I forget the model) that I can use if the Marants gives me too much grief when reassigning amplifiers. My room is about 18x30 with a couple of big (about 6') openings in the front wall and a door on the lft wall (usually open) and another door on the rear wall (usually shut). My questions: 1) Are the KF-28s good enough for rear speaker duty with my new awesome front sound stage and side surrounds? a) If not, what speaker would ya'll recommend that won't get me killed by my wife for "dumping" more money into my set up. 2) Do ya'll think that I'll have issues with different speaker types for front and rear atmos? a) If so, would you get 2 more KC-25s or 2 more R-15Ms. 3) Will I hear enough from the atmos to warrant buying better speaker for those channels as well? Thanks in advance for your time and assistance. Have a GREAT day! Clint Asher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 You can always try it and see what you think. Adhere to Atmos setup guide lines. Is this an upstairs or basement system. The enabled speakers work best with a hard ceiling to bounce off of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint.Asher Posted July 4, 2017 Author Share Posted July 4, 2017 Hi Derrick. Thanks for the reply. I live in a ranch type house and my theater room is what was designed to be the living room. One challenge that I will be facing is that my ceiling is not flat. There is a large recess in the center of the room with a smaller recess set in to the first one making an inverted 3 layer cake looking thing. Aesthetically it's kind of nice, but I'm thinking it will be acoustically challenging for my Atmos experiments. The low spot on the ceiling is probably 8 ft. The high spot 10 or 11 with a lighting fixture in the middle of it. The material is sheet rock with that "popcorn" finish added to it. I'll try to post a pic tomorrow. I'm really hoping to hear ya'lls opinions on whether my existing speakers should be okay or not. I also neglected to mention I'm running 2 Polk Audio PSW 505 sub-woofers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loudly Does It Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 Amos recommends 8-14' ceilings for proper effect. Like others have said, give it a shot and see if you like it. I have not looked into Atmos much because I have 20' ceilings, so they're pointless and I need to upgrade the receiver, which I can't right now. Having said that, I've done some reading, where the speakers that bounce off the roof leave a lot to be desired. if it's a one story house, do you have attic access where you can crawl and install them in the ceiling? The way you're describing the ceiling, you might have trouble getting a good sound to bounce off the ceiling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 I would give it a try and ceiling speakers can be a second option. The thing with Atmos is those speakers are not going to be calling a lot of attention to themselves. Some overhead effects are nice and movie dependent. The main thing with atmos is that it is more immersive. The surround sound is close and more 3 D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint.Asher Posted July 4, 2017 Author Share Posted July 4, 2017 Thanks for the replies gents. I agree that in ceiling speakers would be better but I'm trying to avoid poking holes in the house. Especially if, as Derrick says, the Atmos speakers aren't supposed to call a lot of attention to themselves. Clint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holtrp Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 I am mid Atmos upgrade. I just upgraded to a Marantz 7703 and have the front height speakers installed. I went with RB-61's mounted to the sidewall. I am going to have my rear height speakers here in a few weeks (RB-51). As for timbre / level matching, I think it is somewhat important to keep your system stocked with similar components. Not critical though. I wasn't interested in ceiling mounts at this point, These Dayton mounts are perfect for small to mid sized bookshelf speakers if you want to go that direction. https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-shadow-mount-swmhd-heavy-duty-adjustable-speaker-wall-mount-pair--182-3300#! As for Atmos, I am impressed so far. I haven't done in depth calibration, but I watched 'Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them' and the effect of Atmos is certainly noticeable. The front sound stage is huge. I expect the surround will be equally impressive once I get that up and running. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 I was just talking with a friend about his movie theater Atmos experiences and he told me he couldn't hear or tell a difference, only found out later. Apparently this has happened more than once. I have no experience with Atmos at all, honestly can't even keep the 5 speaker thing going for too long as I seem to always drift back to a 2 channel (with sub) set up. I would certainly try out the speakers you have before buying anything new, surround speakers seem (to me anyway) the least important as far as voice matching etc unless you happen to be sitting very close to one of the speakers, even then not much comes through the surround speakers and what does is usually background noises and such, maybe an occasional voice but usually not. Scenes where all speakers are playing loudly (action scenes etc) if the system is balanced properly don't think you could hear a voicing mis-match too easy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint.Asher Posted July 5, 2017 Author Share Posted July 5, 2017 Another equipment question. My 2 Polk Audio PSW 505 subs sound pretty good to me. Which Klipsch Subs should I have to match up best with the rest of my set up or should the Polks be okay? To phrase it another way, The change from KF-28 to KLF-30 was HUGE. Would changing to Klipsch sub be similar? The Specs are PSW-505 Specifications: ● Driver: 12" Front-Firing; Slot-Loaded ● Amplifier: 300 Watts RMS ● MFR: 23 Hz - 160 Hz ● Low-Pass Adjustment: 60 Hz - 120 Hz, 4th Order ● Inputs: Speaker-Level, Line-Level ● Outputs: Speaker-Level ● Dimensions: 16-18" H x 15-1/8" W x 18-3/16" D ● Weight: 40 Pounds ● MSRP: $589.99 USA Klipsch Sub 12 Specs (as an example) frequency response 24Hz-120Hz +/- 3dB power handling FTC Rated Power: 300 watts continuous @ 1% THD, Dynamic Power*: 650 watts max cont. output 117dB @30 Hz 1/8 space 1 meter crossover frequency Continuously variable from 40Hz-120Hz, 24dB/octave slope above 120Hz woofer One 12” (30.5cm) driver amplifier BASH phase Switchable 0-180 degrees enclosure type Bass-reflex via rear-firing, 4.5-inch round port input connections Two line level/RCA phono jacks and two high level speaker terminals auto power on 2 second ON delay; 15 minute OFF delay dimensions 18.0” (45.7cm) H x 15.0” (38.1cm) W x 19.875” (50.5cm) D weight 40 lbs. (18.2kg) finishes Black voltage 110/120 VAC 60Hz export voltage 230v S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holtrp Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 I can't speak to Klipsch vs Polk. I will say though, the best bang for your buck in subwoofers will be DIY 18" subs over anything sold commercially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint.Asher Posted July 5, 2017 Author Share Posted July 5, 2017 Thanks Holtrp! I never really considered trying to build my own. I have the wood working equipment to do so but have no idea about the effects of type of wood selected, proper bracing, cabinet geometry, porting, building a crossover etc. Since I'm satisfied, if not totally happy with the Polks, I can use them while I research the DIY options. I can also be on the lookout for a steal on a Klipsch sub (really 2 which was my original plan) to do the A/B comparison, and then sell which ever ends up being the least preferred for my setup. The more I start to learn about all of this, the more I realize just how ignorant I really am. The good news is that the persuit of knowledge in this area is fun in and of itself. Have a great day! Clint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardsdoc Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 A capable sub with good output below 20hz can be transformative for the HT experience. Your Polks or the 12" Klipsch can't do that. No reason to match sub brand to speakers and in general primarily speaker companies don't make great subs. Klipsch's 15" sub seems to be an exception to that. It goes for $800 but is sometimes 50% off at Frys. With the money you have invested in the rest of your setup I recommend a little more investment with high quality subs. You have a big room so will need some fairly capable subs. At a minimum for that size room. I would look at something like dual Hsu VTF-2. If you post over on the sub forum at AVS and include room size, budget, listening preferences you will get a lot of recommendations. Although be a little careful as they like to spend your money over there. I started with a Polk htib sub and it escalated quickly to dual SVS pc12-plus subs. But it really is so much fun having capable subs. It makes my system. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holtrp Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1648673-martysub-faq.html This should get you started. It is a total rabbit hole but I am way more satisfied with DIY than I was with commercial subs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardsdoc Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 12 hours ago, holtrp said: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1648673-martysub-faq.html This should get you started. It is a total rabbit hole but I am way more satisfied with DIY than I was with commercial subs. DIY is certainly the best value for high quality subs. However it does require quite a time commitment as well as some woodworking skills. Neither of which I have so I personally stuck with commercial subs. Your setup must sound very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 There are kits avialable for some of the 15 and 18 in. subs through Parts Express or DIY Sound Group. This way no saws or real woodworking skills are need. On average a kit can be glued together in 45 min. and then a coat of paint of your choice. https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-15-ultimax-subwoofer-and-cabinet-bundle--300-7097 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmc15john Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 4 minutes ago, derrickdj1 said: https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-15-ultimax-subwoofer-and-cabinet-bundle--300-7097 Are these passive subs or do I need to by an amp that installs in the rear in addition to the bundle? I'd love to build a sub, sounds like a great project. And saving money always makes my wife happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 They are a passive. A plate amp or external amp can be used. I have use both and either will work great. The advantage of an external amp is that a second sub can be added down the road and use the second channel of the amp. This makes the addition of a second sub cheap. It is even possible to run 4 passive 18 in. subs off 1 amp. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtr20 Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Can you recommend an amp that won't break the bank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint.Asher Posted July 6, 2017 Author Share Posted July 6, 2017 4 hours ago, dtr20 said: Can you recommend an amp that won't break the bank? I've read that a lot of folks are using the Behringer iNuke NU3000 ( http://www.guitarcenter.com/Behringer/iNUKE-NU3000-Power-Amp-1301508431129.gc?cntry=us&source=4WWRWXGP&gclid=Cj0KEQjwv_fKBRCG8a3ao-OQuZ8BEiQAvpHp6PdeyZrV_SG_MaM2w_MSI5BSBEN6CJNP9N15ky7e2-IaApX08P8HAQ&kwid=productads-adid^172488555108-device^c-plaid^140858860341-sku^1301508431129@ADL4GC-adType^PLA ) or NU60000. I prefer Crown myself and have a stack of XLS-1502's ( http://www.guitarcenter.com/Crown/XLS1502-2-Channel-525W-Power-Amplifier-with-Onboard-DSP.gc )taking care of business for me. I hope this is helpful! Clint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 A friend of mine uses the I-nuke 3000 dsp and it seems to drive his SI-18 just fine. The built in DSP is really nice for tuning the output response for the room via microphone. I myself have a Samson SX3200 for the heavy lifting when I get back into a larger place again, its nothing fancy but outputs a TON of good clean power. One channel of the Samson seems comparable to the I-Nuke 3000 in mono. Looks like they've been discontinued? Used to be able to find them for around $500 new. http://www.samsontech.com/samson/products/power-amplifiers/sx-series/sx3200/ Professional High Power, Class H, Rail-switching Amplifier 750 watts per side @ 8 ohms 1100 watts per side @ 4 ohms 2200 watts @ 8 ohms in bridged mono Dual Variable-speed Fan Cooling Signal, Peak, and Protection Circuit Indicators 5-way Binding Post and Speakon™ Speaker Outputs XLR and TRS Input Connections Dual Rack Space Design Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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