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Crossover Home Run (for me)


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I had been thinking for quite some time that my main listening area La Scala's had been sounding very "honky", "horny", whatever you wan to call it....Any kind of music, live, well recorded, anything.  I had been planning on putting CT120 tweeters and the A55G mids in them anyway, but not to address this particular issue, and did that a few weeks ago.  They had the Crites A4500 crossovers in them from a while back, and I thought that the combo of those might address the issue to a degree.  It did not.  I acquired a pair of nice AA's, and then tonight installed some ClarityCap CSA capacitors in those, then put them in the La Scalas.  As I had done (and posted about) previously, I substituted a 6.8uf for the 13uf cap, and moved the tap on T2A from 4 to 3.

 

Well, all I can say is, it's a tremendous improvement.  Much better balance, no more "honk", instrumentation separation is terrific.  I am quite happy with the ClarityCaps (thanks again Dean!), they are not crazy expensive, and I think they really sound great so far.  Likely going to install them in my LSI splits as well, but, I'm not sure how much better they can sound than they do already.....

 

That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.....

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Always good to read about others experiences with capacitor changes. I wish my Belles were done so I could tinker but not yet; have to finish remodeling moms house to get sold. I did, however, get those Russian MBGO paper in oil caps ordered from the seller in Bulgaria. Those will go in first for tinkering purposes. May convert them to a Type A, as Dean mentioned, as it's easy to go back and forth. 

 

That's great that it took care of what you'd been trying to accomplish! 

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It sounds like a fun project Jim.  I have changed a few things in a XO or two but, not much experience.  Changing components can change what you hear.  I'm glad you like the change and enjoy.  I often wonder where the separation of changing XO components end and end and an outboard EQ being in sound scaping?  I don't know and if someone as something to add, much appreciated.

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I remember when I had an active crossover on my K Horns.  They never sounded so good.  Not because of the crossover, but because I could adjust the volume on each driver.  I lowered the mids and tweeters and they sounded great.  I thought that the subwoofer was on but it was not and my room always has bad bass, even with speakers known to have great bass. 

 

Glad you like the results.  I love clarity caps, used then for several projects. 

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1 hour ago, wdecho said:

I'll see if I can work it up for you since I finally got my scanner working correctly probably next week. I spent months playing with all different variants of X-overs before settling of a simple 1st order one using resistors for attenuation. I know of no company making speakers that use autotransformers anymore including Klipsch. In the day of very low output amplifiers PWK thought them to be an advantage but low power amplifiers are certainly not a problem anymore. 

I'd be interested to see this as well.

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I'll see if I can work it up for you since I finally got my scanner working correctly probably next week. I spent months playing with all different variants of X-overs before settling of a simple 1st order one using resistors for attenuation. I know of no company making speakers that use autotransformers anymore including Klipsch. In the day of very low output amplifiers PWK thought them to be an advantage but low power amplifiers are certainly not a problem anymore. 




The highest power amplifier I use is a mcintosh MC 240.
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20 hours ago, wdecho said:

I know of no company making speakers that use autotransformers anymore including Klipsch.

I prefer the simple argument that you prefer the sound of one thing over the other.

 

The resistors cost peanuts in comparison to a pair of autotransformers -- which do you think a company might choose that's engaged in value engineering.

 

Klipsch used relatively simple filters and autotransformers until PK passed away. Roy eschewed their use because of issues related to phase shift -- but not so much of an issue with a 6dB/octave network.

 

PK also liked them because they raised the impedance with increasing frequency, and measurements showed that this reduced TIM from the amplifier.

 

From Dope from Hope: Vol. 16 # 8

 

"The amplifier obviously is an excellent one, showing -76dB TIM distortion components with a resistive load. But the significant thing is that the TIM distortion disappeared into the analyzer threshold with the loudspeaker load. The natural conclusion is that a variation in loudspeaker impedance can be highly advantageous if the variation is in the right direction."

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7 hours ago, derrickdj1 said:

It sounds like a fun project Jim.  I have changed a few things in a XO or two but, not much experience.  Changing components can change what you hear.  I'm glad you like the change and enjoy.  I often wonder where the separation of changing XO components end and end and an outboard EQ being in sound scaping?  I don't know and if someone as something to add, much appreciated.

The external EQ may have the result of introducing changes in the power needed that people don't necessarily realize they are needing.  That 3db for twice the power doesn't change but 3db isn't a huge amount though double the power can be.

 

Doing changes in the crossover MAY amount so similar requirements and many times losses are absorbed by the crossover so the care needs to be exercised either way.  Proper design and power matching.

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  • 3 weeks later...

When you say that:

 

wdecho - The range of an L-pad is not enough to attenuate more than 5 or 6 db alone.

 

Are you referring to the variable L-Pad such as this?:

 

https://www.parts-express.com/speaker-l-pad-attenuator-100w-mono-1-shaft-8-ohm--260-265

 

These variable L-Pads are often said to only have -6db attenuation but this is untrue.
We've used them many times and I've built my own projects using them.  They can be used to -10db
but after around -11db it starts to effect the sound quality. Eminence uses this same exact model
for their variable L-Pad and list it's quality usable to -10db.

 

These L-Pads attenuation are surprisingly accurate if you use this faceplate with them:

 

https://www.parts-express.com/l-pad-knob-and-faceplate-for-3-8-shaft--260-271

 

It has a peg on the back of the faceplate that fits into the hole of the L-Pad listed above,
this accurately aligns the faceplate and L-Pad to give the accurate attenuation you seek,
this makes it easy to pick the attenuation you need from the numbers on the
dial, if you pick 6, it's right at -6db.  This is how we always use the L-Pads because these
faceplates make attenuation accurate, without them.... your guessing.  Many people don't
realize that these faceplates exist or so handy for these L-Pads.

 

I use to have great concerns about the variable L-Pads and how it would effect sound quality if
used in place of the Autotransformers.  Many people just mimic what they hear about L-Pads over
the years and believe it, but they aren't bad or suck out the sound quality like some people say.

I've used them instead of the autotransfermers and they've worked out great while keeping just as
good sound quality, if you know how to design the crossover.... there shouldn't be a problem.
Where the variable L-Pad becomes so great is the exact dead-on tuning it allows on the fly.

I no longer have the sound quality concerns I once had after testing, experimenting, and using them.

 

Also you hear some avoid because of complaints about the intermittent noise problem the L-Pad wipers
make over time.  This can occur when they are stored in areas where they pickup some dampness.  The
secret to them is to install fiberfill/polyfill around the L-Pad unit and staple in place, this stops
it from getting any moisture to the wipers.  We have some 40 year old L-Pads in one set of speaker horns
and absolutely no noise at all when moving the dial, and I've opened them up and they look as new as
the day they were made from the protection of the fiberfill that was put over them 40 years ago.  
I put fiberfill over all my L-Pads now and I've never had a problem with any intermittent noise at all
and installed over 100 variable L-Pads of my own so far.

 

LPAD_Att.jpg

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