Jump to content
The Klipsch Audio Community
37scoop

Short stands for Forte?

Recommended Posts

I'm about to own a pair of Forte lls for HT use and I'll need to raise them 3-5". They have the stock risers. Anyone have any recommendations? Am also wondering how well foam monitor isolation wedges might work as an option. The Foam Factory has a selection that (as described) would accomodate the size and weight of the Forte but have a 4 degree tilt. Thanks in advance for your thoughts and suggestions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I made some stands that raised my F2's 10" off the floor as test to try to reduce some

"boom in the room". I believe it worked but need more time to evaluate. My wife and I do most

of our listening while upright and raising the mids can't be a bad thing.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just curious - why do you need to raise them 3-5"?

 

What about furniture legs attached to the stock risers?

 

There are tons of furniture leg styles and heights, so I've wondered why they are not often used to raise speakers a bit.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3-5 inches is not much, I would think your still well within being in the best range/angle for the horns with only a few inches ? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Beware legs, unless you take steps to avoid a cavity under each speaker.  The little trim indent under the stock Forte II won't hurt, and may be part of the design.  Paul W. Klipsch warned against legs that form cavities in his cardinal rules:

 

5. Freedom from cavities. The space under a speaker box formed by mounting it on legs can destroy the bottom octave of response and deteriorate the next 2 octaves.

 

Some people on the forum have put rigid, solid wood "aprons" around the DIY riser, flush with the front, sides, and backs of their speaker, to avoid a cavity.  An alternative is to put a solid block of wood under the Forte II, the same length and width as the bottom of the Forte cabinet, your desired 3" to 5" thick, and firmly attached to avoid rattles.

 

Here are PWK's rules.  We don't see them often enough, and there are abridged versions of them floating around.  I think this list is complete.

 

Eight Cardinal Points of Reproduction 

 

 

1.Freedom from distortion. Minimum distortion requires small amplitudes of air mass movements, even at peak transient power output. Bass diaphragm motion should not exceed 1/16 inch. Corner placement reduces distortion three fourths.

 

2.Optimum size of speaker. Large enough to reproduce the lowest audible bass tone at peak transient power output without distortion; not so large as to produce a separation of bass and treble events. Corner placement increases effective size of speaker 4 times.

 

3.Freedom from rattles.

 

4.Freedom from shadows. Obstructions between high frequency speaker and listeners can not be tolerated - treble wave-lengths do not turn corners. 

 

 5.Freedom from cavities. The space under a speaker box formed by mounting it on legs can destroy the bottom octave of response and deteriorate the next 2 octaves.

 

6.Adequate spacing for stereo. In a 14 x 17 foot room, for example, the 17-foot wall is apt to be best for the stereo speaker array.

 

7.Accurate spatial values. Ability to localize the virtual sound sources in their original spatial relationships requires 3 widely spaced speakers, regardless of size or type, retention of this quality over a wide listening area requires toe-in of the flanking speakers.

 

8.Flanking speakers toed-in. Such toe-in is naturally provided by corner speakers. The effect is to reduce shift of the virtual sound source for different listener locations. This is the only way to achieve a wide area for listening.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, garyrc said:

Beware legs, unless you take steps to avoid a cavity under each speaker.  The little trim indent under the stock Forte II won't hurt, and may be part of the design.  Paul W. Klipsch warned against legs that form cavities in his cardinal rules:

 

5. Freedom from cavities. The space under a speaker box formed by mounting it on legs can destroy the bottom octave of response and deteriorate the next 2 octaves.

 

Some people on the forum have put rigid, solid wood "aprons" around the DIY riser, flush with the front, sides, and backs of their speaker, to avoid a cavity.  An alternative is to put a solid block of wood under the Forte II, the same length and width as the bottom of the Forte cabinet, your desired 3" to 5" thick, and firmly attached to avoid rattles.

 

Here are PWK's rules.  We don't see them often enough, and there are abridged versions of them floating around.  I think this list is complete.

 

Eight Cardinal Points of Reproduction 

 

 

1.Freedom from distortion. Minimum distortion requires small amplitudes of air mass movements, even at peak transient power output. Bass diaphragm motion should not exceed 1/16 inch. Corner placement reduces distortion three fourths.

 

2.Optimum size of speaker. Large enough to reproduce the lowest audible bass tone at peak transient power output without distortion; not so large as to produce a separation of bass and treble events. Corner placement increases effective size of speaker 4 times.

 

3.Freedom from rattles.

 

4.Freedom from shadows. Obstructions between high frequency speaker and listeners can not be tolerated - treble wave-lengths do not turn corners. 

 

 5.Freedom from cavities. The space under a speaker box formed by mounting it on legs can destroy the bottom octave of response and deteriorate the next 2 octaves.

 

6.Adequate spacing for stereo. In a 14 x 17 foot room, for example, the 17-foot wall is apt to be best for the stereo speaker array.

 

7.Accurate spatial values. Ability to localize the virtual sound sources in their original spatial relationships requires 3 widely spaced speakers, regardless of size or type, retention of this quality over a wide listening area requires toe-in of the flanking speakers.

 

8.Flanking speakers toed-in. Such toe-in is naturally provided by corner speakers. The effect is to reduce shift of the virtual sound source for different listener locations. This is the only way to achieve a wide area for listening.

Agreed. M experimentation with my Quartets confirm this. A solid, 4 sided stand enforces the bass responce. When lifted with a cavity, it was reduced. However, with a 'bearded' stand, where the front of the stand is flush with the speaker and extends to the floor, increases bass output by 6db or so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

garyrc, thanks for the info on legs and cavities.

 

A bit of a derail…

 

What are the physics of the impact to bass from cavities?  Does this cause a reduction of the boundary effect, and would elimination of the cavity restore the some of the boundary effect?

 

Taken to the extreme, would the typical bookshelf speaker on stands have the cavity effect because stands are rarely the full length and width dimensions of the speakers.

 

I built risers to get the mids and highs close to ear level when standing in the unfinished part of my basement (see pic).  Should I consider enclosing the risers to improve bass response?  The room is a large, open space, so not sure how much this would matter.

forte.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

See avatar for the stands...regarding Cardinal Rule 5, with furniture legs or open stands like I use, there indeed is a loss of boundary reinforcement in the lower octaves, but that can be countered by using subs, applying eq, or both.  Also, elevating and aiming the mids appropriately can improve imaging a great deal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just returning to this. Raising it to get the mid horns at ear level. I'll actually need to raise it about 8". Good to know about the issues with a cavity underneath. I've been using a pair of solid blocks and the height really helps with imaging. I'm now on a quest to find something that doesnt look like it belongs in a dorm room. Thanks for the replies. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, Has anyone considered filling the stock Forte II stands/risers with sand and then sealing them? I am considering this but will it alter the performance of the speakers?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Stephen Parker said:

Hi, Has anyone considered filling the stock Forte II stands/risers with sand and then sealing them? I am considering this but will it alter the performance of the speakers?

here is a nice four post stand for a Forte lll stock risers removed columns are fallible. You want to raise any speaker so that the centre of the mid driver is centred upon your seated ear level this will result in the best response stage and image. These are custom Skylan Stands.

Klipsch Forte 3 on Skylan Stands.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Stephen Parker said:

Hi, Has anyone considered filling the stock Forte II stands/risers with sand and then sealing them? I am considering this but will it alter the performance of the speakers?

 

I'd guess any performance alteration derived from that would border very hard on the limits of perception and/or measurement, if it accomplished anything at all beyond maybe lowing the center of mass 1/4".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I built 6" stands nor my KLF-10's. No noticeable change in bass response. Just 2x6's and 4x4's.

 

P8300034a.thumb.jpg.292a89f608163522b681504e629f6a60.jpgP8300036a.thumb.jpg.22668c2330c413e4c96e22204cd185a1.jpg 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Never heard that before .

Never heard Forte called short.

Never heard short stands for Forte.

Interesting... thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Getting ready to do the same thing with a set of Forte IIs I have.  Trying to decide the height and possible angle.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...