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GreenGoose

Cornwall III vs. Forte III

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Jubilee, I have never heard anything better for many times the price.

 I understand there not for everyone, they are big, not as pretty as some but as far as sound, very hard to beat.

To compare what we listen to here, MWM/402, very close to a jubilee. IMO....... Cornwall lll, Heresy l and ll, LaScala, RB-75........... What we have alot of listening time with (friends), Jubilees, 396's, Khorns, Forte lll.

 

 

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Just now, dtel said:

Jubilee, I have never heard anything better for many times the price.

 I understand there not for everyone, they are big, not as pretty as some but as far as sound, very hard to beat.

To compare what we listen to here, MWM/402, very close to a jubilee. IMO....... Cornwall lll, Heresy l and ll, LaScala, RB-75........... What we have alot of listening time with (friends), Jubilees, 396's, Khorns, Forte lll.

 

 

What about a Jubescala? :D

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I have only heard on for a few minutes in the lab when they were first set up. We never listened for a long time as we were trying many different things.

 

IMO...

To me the real magic is in the 402 horn, I love it. Not to say the jube bass bin is not, it's very accurate and tight and only takes up about the same space as a Khorn bass bin, definitely unlike the MWM. 

With the Jubescala you have the Lascala bass bin which I like but can't compare to the Jube bass bin, but with a good sub to help it could be fine, just never heard it with a good sub. We went with the MWM because of 3 reasons.  1. I could build them out of oak and had a big enough room for them. 2. Couldn't spend the money for jube bass bins. 3. When we heard the MWM/402 my wife and daughter had just came back to the lab from the state park and sat in to listen. The MWM/402 had just came out the anechoic chamber and we were about to listen to this for the first time ever. This was just one channel playing and about after 20 seconds my wife and daughter both turned to me and said "this is what we want", I thought they were joking since it's really big. We got home and after about a week they asked me, when are you going to start building the speakers ? They were not kidding, and I was not going to complain. Just happen to be in the right place at the right time.

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Can't chime in too much since I haven't heard either but I'd probably get FIII. I have Heresy 2s already and even though I know the CWIII has driver and crossover upgrades compared to these, I undrestand it to use the same horns as the Heresy. So I'd want something different. Plus the word is the FIII has nice smooth mids with that mumps horn, and the mids were the first thing I liked when I went from RP280 to H2, so that sounds just right for me.

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I understand F III goes to 38Hz at -3dB, and CW III goes down to 34Hz at -4dB

Could somebody please explain which one reaches deeper at -3dB? Not sure if I am making any sense here... Sorry...

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I cannot do the math but minus 3db at 38Hz, is pretty much the same thing as minus 4db at 34 Hz, six of one and half a dozen of the other they are not far off each other. Once you are minus 3db down you have made a jump and you need to remember that at Fs (system resonance) a reflex loaded system (does not matter if vent or passive they are both reflex loading) the response drops at 12 db per octave. So if system resonance was 40 Hz the response would be 12db down one octave lower that would be 20 Hz., in other words by 20Hz. you have for all intent and purposes no more usable bass. Hope that helps you some.

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20 hours ago, moray james said:

... minus 3db at 38Hz, is pretty much the same thing as minus 4db at 34 Hz...

 

Thank you very kindly @moray james for the explanation!

I see now in critical (at least in my book) BASS department F III and CW III are quite comparable. I wonder if both designs can also provide neutral off-axis response so important for greater accuracy and room-to-room consistency... 

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There is another aspect to specified frequency responses that doesn't give you an apples to apples comparison at first glance.

 

One speaker's sensitivity may be 99 db +/- 3db, and the other is 102 db +/- 4db. 

 

That 3 db difference in efficiency results in the perception (for me anyway) of more bass at a given volume.

 

I have come to this realization only through direct comparison with my Forte ii's and Cornwall ii's in the same placement and with the same source.

 

On paper my Forte ii's are SUPPOSED to go lower, but the Cornwall ii's not only SOUND bigger, but lower too.

 

Put another way, I had to turn the volume dial up a notch or two louder with the Forte ii's to get the same impact I got from the Cornwall ii's at a lower listening level.

 

The greater the efficiency, the greater the impact at any given level. 

 

There is a racing adage that states "there is no replacement for displacement" and it seems to apply to speakers.

 

But that tractrix horn IS a game changer!

 

You really need to hear them both in the same setting, at the same time, with the same source.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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more efficient will always sound better and larger drives couple to more air. PWK said bigger was better he was not kidding. A larger woofer will be a little bit more directional than a smaller one. So at a frequency of say 750Hz. a fifteen inch woofer will have less off axis dispersion than a twelve inch woofer will and that is a good thing but the difference is not going to be a lot. The smaller woofer should/could have slightly smoother response at crossover but really your room is going to have a way larger impact. That combined with personal preference and you do need to make your own call on which set of compromises that you like best because there is no accounting for taste.

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30 minutes ago, moray james said:

more efficient will always sound better and larger drives couple to more air. PWK said bigger was better he was not kidding. A larger woofer will be a little bit more directional than a smaller one. So at a frequency of say 750Hz. a fifteen inch woofer will have less off axis dispersion than a twelve inch woofer will and that is a good thing but the difference is not going to be a lot. The smaller woofer should/could have slightly smoother response at crossover but really your room is going to have a way larger impact. That combined with personal preference and you do need to make your own call on which set of compromises that you like best because there is no accounting for taste.

Your statement in regards to horn size reminds me of this home system which I first saw about 15 years ago and would love to hear.  Notice the bass horns built into the house itself.  Very cool.

 

room1.jpg

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...so THIS is where it all leads too?...

 

The house AS speaker!

 

I can live with that.

 

Is there any space left in the garage, or is that where all the tube amps go?

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2 hours ago, chriswhotakesphotos said:

Is the consensus so far that the CWIII still sounds better? It does cost a bit more, so I suppose that shouldn't be too surprising.

 

It's my impression that the modern squawker horn with the "mumps" appeals to many over the smaller old tech Heresy III horn used in the Cornwall III.  Not sure of the percentages, but there doesn't seem to be a consensus in favor of CW3.

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Had a pair of Roy's horns (2 pairs of the big K-402's and one pair of the smaller ones with the mumps). Newer is better all around, but the tooling on the Exponential 700 Hz. horn is paid for many time over with a "don't mess with the older stuff" attitude.

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On 9/13/2017 at 6:23 AM, Horn-player said:

Happy to learn CW III's sound nice even in a small room...

I (briefly) flanked my computer workstation with Cornwalls (keeping them at appropriate levels); bystanders would have been confused by the juxtaposition of scale. The sound, seated at my workstation, was luxurious. I had to look over my shoulder to make sure I wasn't going to be arrested. I have now restored their place(s) in the living room. I am at peace.

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Dear Audiophiles!

 

What full range PRO speakers suitable for smaller listening spaces would you consider on par with Forte III / Cornwall III in terms of the SOUND?

I wish I could afford the Jubilee's many true connoisseurs prize so high...

 

Please chime in!

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1 hour ago, Horn-player said:

What full range PRO speakers suitable for smaller listening spaces would you consider on par with Forte III / Cornwall III in terms of the SOUND?

Considering you said small and in this case about the same size as a Forte lll I would have to say KI-396-SMA-II, amazing speaker.

Now I have not heard all the PRO stuff but have heard the 396 alot, it's one of my favorites. Not cheap and considering the price I would pick the Forte lll, since you said smaller spaces. 

 

One thing to remember, there is little to no difference with consumer to PRO designs themselves. I was talking with Roy this weekend and he said it bothers him that people think there are big differences. He said when he designs speakers there is not a different concept for either, he tries to get the best out of each and there is no things off limits that can't be used for either. Now in some cases size is a little more unlimited with the pro but all are still made as small as a design allows. 

 

http://www.klipsch.com/pro/permanent-installation

 

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Thank you very kindly, @dtel, for your most informative response!

 

I am just a newbie, and certainly should have qualified what I meant by "smaller" (both in terms of room and amplification requirements). Sorry...

 

I am looking for your, dear audiophiles, speaker recommendations for music-only stereo setup:

1. "Cave": 14' x 14' x 8' with a wide opening into 10' x 10' x 8' room behind my listening position (small condo).

2. Amplification: PASS Labs XA30.5 (30 W/ch into 8 Ohm).

3. Music preferences: Organ, opera, orchestral works with big dynamic swings, fortepiano, vocal jazz, pop (a bit eclectic, wouldn't you agree?).

 

On 2017-10-08 at 1:41 PM, dtel said:

One thing to remember, there is little to no difference with consumer to PRO designs themselves.

 

In this case Forte III easily wins, since it has much greater than KI-396-SMA-II WAF, and goes deeper (38 Hz vs. 60 Hz)

Would you suggest me considering any of the Behind the Screen Systems speakers, please? Ah-h Jubilee's, the impossible dream... 

 

Please chime in!

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