teaman Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 13 minutes ago, dcbrown88 said: I'm in the same boat right now but I haven't purchased an AVR/Pre-amp yet. I'm considering the new Pioneer Elite flagship model since I can get it heavily discounted but I wouldn't want to put money into separate amps if I did so. The AVR will do 7.2.2 while having the front L+R bi-amped so I'm not sure if I would gain a lot by adding a separate. On the other hand, I could do a cheaper AVR with pre-outs and run to a separate for the front channels and come out around the same price and may see gains? Welcome to the forum dcbrown88. What is your budget and what is the ballpark cost of the Pioneer? This will help us get an idea of options for you. Tim 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcbrown88 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Hi Tim, thanks for the welcome! I would be in it for around $1600 give or take and that's for the LX901. I would like to stay around that same price if I were to do a pre-amp/AVR + separate combo. I'm still building my theater but hooked up the RF-7s the other day and listened to my SC-91 in 2 channel with and without bi-amping and didn't hear much of a difference other than a little detail. That being said, I didn't crank it up as they're just sitting in an unused bedroom right now that has wood floors and is empty. The theater room is around 11'x19' with 9' ceilings and is on second floor. The speakers I'll be using are: Fronts: RF-7 II Center: RC-64 II Sides and Rears: RS-62 II Atmos: CDT-5650-C II Subs: TBD Thanks, Duke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 1 hour ago, dcbrown88 said: I'm in the same boat right now but I haven't purchased an AVR/Pre-amp yet. I'm considering the new Pioneer Elite flagship model since I can get it heavily discounted but I wouldn't want to put money into separate amps if I did so. The AVR will do 7.2.2 while having the front L+R bi-amped so I'm not sure if I would gain a lot by adding a separate. I picked up a Marantz SR-6011 from a forum member about a month ago. Love it. Because of the research I've been doing I've followed prices. A week ago Amazon had these at $1400 which I thought was a pretty good price. It just dropped to $1,000. My guess is the price drop is to clear inventory for the new models about to come out. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01K1Z6M1O?tag=szix-soundandvision-20 +++ Edit: @dcbrown88I just read further and saw your budget is $1600. Would it be possible to pick up the 6011 which does a true 5.1.4 Atmos, and add a $600 multi-channel amp of some kind? Mr. @teaman is my consultant for all things SS amplifiers. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teaman Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 DC, you can definitely get yourself a nice set up for $1600. Since you already have a great line up as far as speakers go, you can grab yourself a reputable receiver as you and wvu posted above plus you can take the step up to put a nice three channel amp for your front three. You can probably get away with leaving the surround, height and ceiling speakers to the receiver to handle. That will take a load off your receiver's internal amp and let the external amp drive the front stage with that extra oomph you desire. Would you rahter go with a pre/pro and separate amps for all channels or do you feel better with the receiver and additional amp? Tim 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcbrown88 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 6 hours ago, teaman said: DC, you can definitely get yourself a nice set up for $1600. Since you already have a great line up as far as speakers go, you can grab yourself a reputable receiver as you and wvu posted above plus you can take the step up to put a nice three channel amp for your front three. You can probably get away with leaving the surround, height and ceiling speakers to the receiver to handle. That will take a load off your receiver's internal amp and let the external amp drive the front stage with that extra oomph you desire. Would you rahter go with a pre/pro and separate amps for all channels or do you feel better with the receiver and additional amp? Tim I would think that a receiver and an additional amp would be the way to go, no? I'm not sure if I could get a pre/pro along with 9 channels of amplification for that budget, especially a newer one that's full 4k and supports atmos. If my fronts are separate, I would assume the receiver is more than capable to run the RS-62s and in-ceiling atmos speakers on its internal amp. Really looking for suggestions though. Thanks again 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 42 minutes ago, dcbrown88 said: I would think that a receiver and an additional amp would be the way to go, no? I'm not sure if I could get a pre/pro along with 9 channels of amplification for that budget, especially a newer one that's full 4k and supports atmos. If my fronts are separate, I would assume the receiver is more than capable to run the RS-62s and in-ceiling atmos speakers on its internal amp. Really looking for suggestions though. High quality AVR, flagship or near flagship, with amp can be just be just about as good as pre/pro and amp combo. Bill 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcbrown88 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 17 minutes ago, willland said: High quality AVR, flagship or near flagship, with amp can be just be just about as good as pre/pro and amp combo. Bill Do you think just a flagship AVR would suffice? I'm either looking to do a new flagship without separate amps (for now) or getting an older flagship for a decent price and getting an amp for front channels. The Pioneer will do 7.2.2 with front left and rights bi-amped but I doubt that it would be able to push the same amount of power as a separate amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoboKlipsch Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Fuzzy i went outboard for L and R and it is better. I used an inuke because at 8ohms they have good response to 20khz....at 4ohms not as good. It makes a difference and i have a denon with tests that show it shouldnt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 20 minutes ago, dcbrown88 said: or getting an older flagship for a decent price and getting an amp for front channels. If you can do without some of the most modern features of a new AVR, then by all means do this. I am all about amps with most speakers. Even the finest flagship AVRs today do not have the gusto that even a moderate multichannel amp has. This Outlaw Audio's entry level 5-channel amp is a prime example. https://www.outlawaudio.com/products/5000.html Bill 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcbrown88 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, willland said: If you can do without some of the most modern features of a new AVR, then by all means do this. I am all about amps with most speakers. Even the finest flagship AVRs today do not have the gusto that even a moderate multichannel amp has. This Outlaw Audio's entry level 5-channel amp is a prime example. https://www.outlawaudio.com/products/5000.html Bill That's what I was figuring the consensus would be as well. I'm working on getting an SC-99 for a steal so if I'm able to get that, I will undoubtedly be looking to do a separate amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 33 minutes ago, dcbrown88 said: Do you think just a flagship AVR would suffice? I'm either looking to do a new flagship without separate amps (for now) or getting an older flagship for a decent price and getting an amp for front channels. The Pioneer will do 7.2.2 with front left and rights bi-amped but I doubt that it would be able to push the same amount of power as a separate amp. DC, I don't run Atmos and I don't plan to. From what I've read from the people who do run Atmos, the 4 Atmos speaker setup is the way to go, so 5.x.4. That would be L/C/R, two side surround for 5.x.x, then one or two subs for 5.2.x, then four Atmos modules 5.2.4, two front and two middle. If you only two Atmos speakers they would go up front. By adding the extra two Atmos you get a more immersive sound/experience. Don't take my word for this as this is my impression from what I've read. The people who actually run those setups can give you first hand advice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 16 minutes ago, dcbrown88 said: That's what I was figuring the consensus would be as well. I'm working on getting an SC-99 for a steal so if I'm able to get that, I will undoubtedly be looking to do a separate amp. Pio Elites are known to sound great with Klipsch and I would have to the think the SC-99 would do everything you need right out of the box up to 5.2.2, no external amp needed. +++ Here is an SC-91 for $400. I'm not sure if it is still available. http://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-audio-gear/2905201-fs-pioneer-elite-sc-91-7-2-ch-home-theater-receiver-dolby-atmos-4k-hdr.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcbrown88 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, wvu80 said: Here is an SC-91 for $400. I'm not sure if it is still available. http://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-audio-gear/2905201-fs-pioneer-elite-sc-91-7-2-ch-home-theater-receiver-dolby-atmos-4k-hdr.html I have an SC-91 right now but it's only 7 channels and has no pre-outs so that's why I won't be using it in the theater. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 7 minutes ago, dcbrown88 said: I have an SC-91 right now but it's only 7 channels and has no pre-outs so that's why I won't be using it in the theater. I've been talking basics @dcbrown88 and you obviously have good stuff already and don't need Atmos explained to you. Sorry about that. +++ I take it you will be selling the SC-91. That will help defray the cost of the new AVR and/or power amps as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcbrown88 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 1 minute ago, wvu80 said: I've been talking basics @dcbrown88 and you obviously have good stuff already and don't need Atmos explained to you. Sorry about that. No worries man, I appreciate all help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzydog Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 11 minutes ago, wvu80 said: Pio Elites are known to sound great with Klipsch and I would have to the think the SC-99 would do everything you need right out of the box up to 5.2.2, no external amp needed. I really liked my SC-1323 when i was running it in a 7.2 setup in my HT. My new Denon definitely has a warmer/darker signature which some people prefer. I think @derrickdj1is running a SC-99 in his Atmos setup if you're looking for hands on experience. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzydog Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 1 hour ago, dcbrown88 said: Do you think just a flagship AVR would suffice? I'm either looking to do a new flagship without separate amps (for now) or getting an older flagship for a decent price and getting an amp for front channels. What about something like a Denon X-4300 with an outboard. You'll save about $500 on the receiver which you can dump into an outboard amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcbrown88 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, fuzzydog said: What about something like a Denon X-4300 with an outboard. You'll save about $500 on the receiver which you can dump into an outboard amp. Something like that could definitely be a contender depending on what I could find one for. I can get the majority of things at dealer cost through some friends but may end up being better to find some deals on used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzydog Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 7 hours ago, RoboKlipsch said: Fuzzy i went outboard for L and R and it is better. I used an inuke because at 8ohms they have good response to 20khz....at 4ohms not as good. It makes a difference and i have a denon with tests that show it shouldnt. How well does a pro amp work for your mains? I've no doubt that it provides the power, but i'd wonder how it compares to more home theater/audiophile oriented amps in other parameters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 6 hours ago, fuzzydog said: I really liked my SC-1323 when i was running it in a 7.2 setup in my HT. My new Denon definitely has a warmer/darker signature which some people prefer. I think @derrickdj1is running a SC-99 in his Atmos setup if you're looking for hands on experience. I can't tell anyone what they will like. The SC 99 does have some special filters to change the sound to a more warm sound, tube like and others. I have not used these filters and can't say how good they are. Pioneer is not about warm sound or other sound, it is like the old Yamaha, just a pure natural sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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