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Now that I'm retired....


Dhollin

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Now that I'm a retired music teacher, I have some time to "love my listening". I've just discovered this community and have spent the day reading many, many threads. I might add that I have enjoyed the reading and am quite impressed with the knowledge base here as well as the understanding. So, I'm a newbie to the group but have owned my Cornwalls since 1983 when I bought them used for $125 each. I got them from a former student who told me her husband had bought these "things" and they were too big for the house. Evidently he had also bought Heresy speakers and she told him he could keep them.

 

Anyway, I've had them for a long time and loved them continuously. Had to fend off my wife by reminding her that I'd had the Cornwalls way longer than I'd known her. They reside in my living room as the mains for our home theater, I use R15m's for the surrounds and back. Just got new Crites crossovers for them and will be installing them as soon as I get in new 5-way connectors.

 

Now for my question for the group. I get to have a "man cave" now and it is in the process of being remodeled. I bought a pair of Heresy II speakers with updated Crites crossovers and tweeters for use with a Yamaha R-S700, Onkyo C-7030 CD, Audio Technica Turntable, and Dayton Audio 12" sub. The room is small 12'x12" and the sub is just barely present in the sound with the crossover at 80. I love the Heresy almost as much as the Cornwall and I think that the low bass is being handled well by the sub. The question is... should the Heresy be on the floor, on a Klipsch style riser, or on a stand 18"-20" high? Would the stand take too much away from the bass of the Heresy? I've tried them on the floor and right now, they are tilted 1.5" high in the front. I kinda like that. The floor is carpet now but will be hardwood at the end of the remodel. No curtains in the room, just blinds although curtains could be added. What think the gurus of the forum?

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Welcome, I would usually say leave it on the floor angled up, but since you have a sub, lift it up to have the horns pointing right at you. The little bit of lost bass would not be noticed even crossed at 80 with a sub. imo

 

Congratulations on retirement, enjoy it. 

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I am an advocate of placing Heresy's (or any speaker for that matter) as close as possible to the way the designer intended. So my Heresy's are on the floor, against the wall, spread as far apart as I can get them, and toed in. In my room, their bass reaches to between 40 and 50hz.

 

Because I find the Heresy's bass to be "tighter" and more "tuneful" than my subs on music, which is mostly what I use them for, I cross the subs over quite low at either 40 or 50hz. 50 measures better, but sometimes 40 sounds better.

 

Keep in mind that for movie watching, by design, my Onkyo receiver (and most others?) sends all of the deep bass in movies below 120hz to the sub via the .1 LFE channel regardless of your other crossover settings, so the Heresy's aren't dealing with that anyway.

 

With all of that said, I also advocate experimenting with everyone else's suggestions and doing what you like best. You are the only person you have to answer to regarding your setup! Congratulations on the new man cave and have fun with the process!  

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Welcome to the Forum, 

Heresy's sound better off the floor.  The only reason to have them on the floor is to get additional loading of the bass  by having the woofer loaded in a ground plane   Some discussion here https://trueaudio.com/st_spcs1.htm and http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/648418-4pi-vs-2pi-vs-ground-plane-industry-expert-speaks-out.html

 

Since you have a sub (something that wasn't typical when Heresy was designed and Heresy was not designed to be used in pairs unsupported by bass since it was designed to be flanked by two Khorns) you can enjoy much better imaging by lifting them from the floor, even just 12", and let the sub fill in the missing bass load.

 

If you are not the imaging type and/or think it is foolish to waste floor space on a stand when you could have a perfectly good enclosure supporting your bass output in that same space, put them on the floor.  Also you may find the Heresy 1, since it is more high frequency oriented, may sound better on the floor as it can be very hot when run on stands.

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I have the same, or similar, subwoofer in my "music" room, an 11 x 20 bedroom, supporting a pair of KG2s and/or Auratone 5CTVs.  For Heresies and realistic concert volumes, I'd recommend 2 of the Dayton subs.  Then you will have excellent stands for your Heresies.  You will also obtain lower distortion levels from 2 subs to better match the Heresies.  Whatever route you take, you only need to point the squawkers and tweeters at your listening position. 

 

Congrats on retirement!  Look in on the Cables, Coffee and Cocktails thread.  Skip to the end, there's no hope of catching up!  This morning's cup is a home roasted Kurundi Kayanza, medium roast.  ;)

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51 minutes ago, pzannucci said:

Agree with John A. on the two subs as stands.  That is the best configuration you could get with Heresys as long as they are good subs and blended appropriately.  

It is not as much of a question as if they are good subs, it is more about can the user integrated the subs.  There are some bad subs but few and far between compared to the person integrating the subs.

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I like the idea of using the sub(s) as stands. Who doesn't like better bass and getting to spend money on sound equipment.  It's a win/win. What ever I use to raise them, I think I will give that a shot but probably not until the room is finished. My next task in the cave is taking everything out of the room before the carpenters (the trade, not the singers) get here. They're building cabinets for all my CD's and vinyl. I will run the new TV through the Heresy setup but 2.1 only in this room.  I'll go ahead and re-wire everything while I'm at it. On to my Cornwalls and the crossover replacement thereof.  My thanks to all who have helped.

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2 hours ago, derrickdj1 said:

It is not as much of a question as if they are good subs, it is more about can the user integrated the subs.  There are some bad subs but few and far between compared to the person integrating the subs.

You are right, it does take an ear and many times some equipment to do it right.  Precisely why I said blended appropriately.  ^_^

Probably a better word is correctly.

 

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Welcome Dhollin!,

 

As stated previously the designer originally intended the Heresy for fill in between a pair of Klipschorns, that being said, there are many reasons to raise them off of the floor. First, and foremost would be to get a direct, unobstructed line of sight to your ears, in particular, the tweeter and midrange sqwaker. A 12 by 12 room is on the small side, and on a couch or your favorite listening room, the angle upwards to reach your ears is going to be redicuously steep. I further agree with two subs even though your room is smallish, you could have some real null problems as a square room is a real No-No for listening, but it is what you have. For some knowledge and enjoyment, look up both Golden mean Square, and Paul Klipsch Goolden mean Cube. I didn't understand your 2.1 comment, are you still planning on running your Cornwalls in the same room under 2.1 Stereo? If so, realize that while multi-channel stereo is louder, it does not sound as good as 2 speaker Stereo. I run surround sound with 7 mains and if I want to impress someone with intolerable noise, or be able to hear it through the entire house, then I use multi channel stereo, but for critical listening, it is 2 channel over 90 percent of the time. Please be aware though that there are a very few excellent recordings available specifically recorded for surround sound listening, The Eagles final farewell tour is an absolute stand out and must have. Where are you from? I must take this time to point out that every year in either April or May, we have a 3 or 4 day Pilgrimage to both Hope Arkansas and Bodcaw Arkansas to feed the plant workers at Paul Wilbur Klipsch original factory! You would get to see the plant where your Cornwalls and Heresies were originally built, and possibly feed someone that helped build them for you. We also get a demonstration in the Klipsch listening room, this year it was Klipschorns, the brand new Forte' IIIs, and the RF-7IIs, Last year it was Klipschorns, PF-39 Paladiums and RF-7IIs. We get an ABC demonstration by a flip of a switch on the same equipement, in the same room. We also get to tour the lab, and the antiechoic chamber and listen to some big Klipsch Pro line speakers outside there. After the plant tour of speakers being built, the listening room, and the lab experience, and we have also eaten, after the employees, we then go across the street to the Paul Wilbur Klipsch museum for a tour given by Jim Hunter and he then gives a questions and answer period. After all the activies, we go out to Rodney Newtons 610 acre spread. A square mile has exactly 640 acres in it for reference. Rodney has 13 ponds, the biggest of which is 78 acres, stocked with huge catch and release large mouth bass. Rodney also has a large party barn with a small stage and an 80 foot long bar. This year, we had 4 separate bands play for us. Rodney feeds us lunch at the factory, supper at his party building, breakfast Saturday morning, supper Saturday night, and breakfast on Sunday morning included in your registration fee. The county is a dry county, so we bring our own refreshments, also, lunch on Fri, Sat, and Sunday are on our own. All in all, one hell of a lot of fun and friendships to be made!  ;) By the way, you can stay at a local Hotel for about $50 a night, or camping on the 610 acres is available for a small fee. You will notice a poster above me has an orangutan for an avatar, his forum name is DTEL and his reel first name is Eldon and his wifes name is Christy. Christies forum name is Eldons Wife , and she runs the show to setting up and arranging Pilgrimage and making it a great time!  :) Hope to see you there and hear more from you on the forum...  ;)

 

PS; If you eventually intend to go to surround sound, I would recommend another pair of Hereseies, you could run one as a center, and the other as a center rear speaker, DTEL does this with six Forte: and Forte' II speakers and has a separate pair of huge speakers in his room for 2 channel stereo listening  :)

 

 

Roger

 

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Sorry for the confusion regarding the 2.1. My new room does have a 55" 4K television but I will not be running a 7.1 system in that room.  I much prefer stereo for music and always have and this room is for my music. The Cornwalls are in another room (16'x24') as the front speakers of a 7.1 system (Denon DVR-1911, 70" flat screen, Klipsch RC-62 II, 2-Cornwalls, 4-RP15M's and another Dayton 12" sub) Although, I've found the sub to be almost redundant with the Cornwalls. This room is big enough to allow the CWs to shine. I'm hoping they will shine more with the new crossovers.  The new room is strictly 2.1 (or maybe 2.2) and is for listening with video almost as an afterthought in this room. I will utilize the Sony R-700S to power the Heresy/Crites pair and the powered subs but no 5.1/7.1/9.1 etc in the "cave". Sound source is CD (Onkyo C-7030) Lossless Audio and iTunes (MacIntosh iMac w/7TB), Reel to Reel (old Teac A-6100 Mk2), Vinyl (Audio Technica LP-120), and occasionally a cassette from my old performance days (Denon DR-M25HX or Luxman K-118 [dbx noise reduction]).

 

I currently live in Daytona Beach, FL but grew up in North Louisiana about 1.5 hours from Hope, AR. Of course I didn't really know it at the time. Left there not long after I got the Cornwalls in 1982 the 23U serial numbers (consecutive 737-738) tell me I got them when they were 2 years old. Been in Florida ever since teaching music (band, orchestra, chorus, and elementary music). Play saxophone (baritone mostly) professionally off and on. Now that I'm retired, I have the time to devote 2-4 hours a day to listening while staying out of my wife's hair. Since her office is at home and she earns WAY more than me, the Cornwall room is generally off-limits during work hours. Hence, the man cave. Since I'm retired now, I'd love to go to the Klipsch facility, and will consider that in the future.

 

Finally, I consider this forum a blessing as when I try to explain things to my wife, she sort of "glazes over". As long as it sounds good, she doesn't really care. Occasionally she does ask if an intervention might be necessary.  We're lucky that we have a room big enough for the Cornwalls to seem appropriate.... Khorns on the other hand.....

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OK... I read the "Golden Cube" and my room isn't that. The size of the room is, however, closer to 12x14x8 due to a closet that will be opened up during the remodel. What treatments in the corners/walls are recommended? Due to the layout, the speakers will have to go on one of the long walls but I won't be able to get them into the corners. One wall will be covered floor to ceiling with custom open cabinets (media storage). Maybe I should just get the room finished and see what it's like? With the carpet gone, cabinets, etc. the room will be quite different than it is now. I do believe that I will go with the Heresy's sitting on top of two 12" subs as stands. I think I'll like the sound and I'm sure I'll like the look. Should they be directly on top? Sitting on feet? Sitting on spikes? opinions.

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23 minutes ago, Dhollin said:

Sorry for the confusion regarding the 2.1. My new room does have a 55" 4K television but I will not be running a 7.1 system in that room.  I much prefer stereo for music and always have and this room is for my music. The Cornwalls are in another room (16'x24') as the front speakers of a 7.1 system (Denon DVR-1911, 70" flat screen, Klipsch RC-62 II, 2-Cornwalls, 4-RP15M's and another Dayton 12" sub) Although, I've found the sub to be almost redundant with the Cornwalls. This room is big enough to allow the CWs to shine. I'm hoping they will shine more with the new crossovers.  The new room is strictly 2.1 (or maybe 2.2) and is for listening with video almost as an afterthought in this room. I will utilize the Sony R-700S to power the Heresy/Crites pair and the powered subs but no 5.1/7.1/9.1 etc in the "cave". Sound source is CD (Onkyo C-7030) Lossless Audio and iTunes (MacIntosh iMac w/7TB), Reel to Reel (old Teac A-6100 Mk2), Vinyl (Audio Technica LP-120), and occasionally a cassette from my old performance days (Denon DR-M25HX or Luxman K-118 [dbx noise reduction]).

 

I currently live in Daytona Beach, FL but grew up in North Louisiana about 1.5 hours from Hope, AR. Of course I didn't really know it at the time. Left there not long after I got the Cornwalls in 1982 the 23U serial numbers (consecutive 737-738) tell me I got them when they were 2 years old. Been in Florida ever since teaching music (band, orchestra, chorus, and elementary music). Play saxophone (baritone mostly) professionally off and on. Now that I'm retired, I have the time to devote 2-4 hours a day to listening while staying out of my wife's hair. Since her office is at home and she earns WAY more than me, the Cornwall room is generally off-limits during work hours. Hence, the man cave. Since I'm retired now, I'd love to go to the Klipsch facility, and will consider that in the future.

 

Finally, I consider this forum a blessing as when I try to explain things to my wife, she sort of "glazes over". As long as it sounds good, she doesn't really care. Occasionally she does ask if an intervention might be necessary.  We're lucky that we have a room big enough for the Cornwalls to seem appropriate.... Khorns on the other hand.....

 

 

 

Dhollin,

 

Sounds like you have your priorities straight, I on the other hand see it as my wife gets a free pass to do what-ever she wants to do in the bedroom, bathrooms and kitchen, so I don't give her a say on what I do in my one room and I like it that way  ;) Hope you can come hang out with us this next spring, oh and wives and kids do come as well  ;)

 

Rog

 

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4 minutes ago, Dhollin said:

OK... I read the "Golden Cube" and my room isn't that. The size of the room is, however, closer to 12x14x8 due to a closet that will be opened up during the remodel. What treatments in the corners/walls are recommended? Due to the layout, the speakers will have to go on one of the long walls but I won't be able to get them into the corners. One wall will be covered floor to ceiling with custom open cabinets (media storage). Maybe I should just get the room finished and see what it's like? With the carpet gone, cabinets, etc. the room will be quite different than it is now. I do believe that I will go with the Heresy's sitting on top of two 12" subs as stands. I think I'll like the sound and I'm sure I'll like the look. Should they be directly on top? Sitting on feet? Sitting on spikes? opinions.

 

 

Agree, wait on the room and see what it likes! Only you have your ears, so trust them!  ;)

 

Roger

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If you put the Heresy cabs on top of the subs, I would (personally) remove the bases and have them straight up. I have mine HIIs with an old cotton diaper underneath as to avoid scratching either finish. Acoustically I can't tell a difference. The diaper is thin eough that you can't see it, being trmmed to about an inch smaller than the cabinet.

 

Love the originals, the HIIs are more balanced. I  an only imagine what the HIIIs are like. They are certainly beautiful!

 

Bruce

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