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Claude's "Super Heresy" from Frankensmurfs


DizRotus

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3 hours ago, DizRotus said:

Years ago I asked a Klipsch representative whether a Heresy without a gasket seal under the back board was truly a "sealed" enclosure.  The paraphrased response was, "it's sealed enough."  These boxes will be sealed in fact, not merely "enough." @ClaudeJ1  I've built many speakers . . .  not today, but many times over the decades,

OK, well, I didn't need THAT much convincing. It was just an observation of a hairline slot. LOL.

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3 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

OK, well, I didn't need THAT much convincing. It was just an observation of a hairline slot. LOL.

 

I know you understand but others, armchair quarterbacks, are not as knowledgeable as you my friend.  The seal is behind the horns, not at "a hairline slot" between them

 

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Here is the solution to mounting from the front without removing the drivers.  @ClaudeJ1    Naturally, the drivers will be attached to the horns at the time of final assembly.  Without this rear sub-assembly, the opening needed to pass the drivers through from the front makes anchoring and sealing extremely difficult.  Attaching the bolt-on drivers with the horns as shown in the first photo is essentially impossible.

 

 

A.jpg  

 

B.jpg

C.jpg

D.jpg

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The networks that came with the Frankensmurfs are labeled "KP-2.0A" and the binding posts cups show, "KP-201." Apparently, the F'smurfs' enclosures started life as 2-ways (KP-101?) with 8" woofers.  How the small enclosures were wed to KP-201 components will remain a mystery.  When someone added the K53/K701 squawkers, they probably added the KP-2.0A 3-way networks also.  Despite the haphazard approach, they sounded pretty good playing Brubeck's Take Five during the brief audition before dismemberment.

 

As near as I can tell, the layout of the networks conforms to the KP-2.0A schematic found online.  The plan is to use the KP-2.0As for the initial audition.  Then I will, with the expert tutelage of Claude, @ClaudeJ1, build networks dedicated to these specific speakers.  I have a collection of myriad caps, resistors, and chokes, as well as a new pair of Bob Crites' 3636 autoformers, from which to select.  While I have a smattering of knowledge on the subject of passive networks,  I do not claim to have the detailed knowledge necessary to scratch build custom networks.  I can follow a schematic and solder, but, when it comes to designing such  filters, my  expertise pales in comparison to the likes of Al K (although my diplomacy  skills are somewhat better).  I believe it's Claude's plan to essentially build B2 networks.

 

In any event, the test networks will be outside the boxes, with the leads passing through the rear ports, until finally configured. 

 

KP 2.0A_side.jpg

KP 2.0A_top.jpg

 

 

KP201.JPG

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As expected, they sound pretty good, even with the KP-2.0A networks. The source was Pono player feeding hi-res files to a lowly battery powered TDA7297 chip amp (on the table).  Please overlook the mess in my basement.  I was eager to test them.  It will be interesting to see how much they can improve  with custom networks and when powered by TPA3118 "Wiener" or TPA3255 EVM.

 

Applying Duratex in a basement under artificial light is less than ideal.  Next spring I'll correct some flaws in the finish when the weather warms up enough to paint outside in the daylight.

 

20171104_200546 (Medium).jpg

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Now, whether to tweak or replace the KP-2.0A networks?  At a minimum, it would seem prudent to replace the #3504 autoformers with my #3636 autoformers from Bob Crites for more fine tuning of the squawker.  The thread linked below is informative and thought provoking.

 

To my inexpert eyes, the KP-2.0A network is the H2 network with tweeter protection for pro use.  Can, or should, the tweeter protection be removed?

 

As Claude, @ClaudeJ1, recommended, these are ported.  I could, and will, easily fashion a removable plug to make them sealable to compare.  In my small space, I plan to use them for music only without my 4 TH subs, as the bass seems sufficient for music.  With the four subs powered by 2 iNuke 1000dsp amps dialed in with Audyssey and my Onkyo AVR for HT use with different speakers, the hassle to switch the subs in and out with these seems not worth it.

 

The specs of the Eminence Delta Pro 12A woofers are attached.  The specs of the K-53-K squawker and K-56-K tweeter are, I believe, readily available.  I should point out, the tweeters have Crites’ titanium diaphragms.  

 

Any suggestions are welcomed. @BEC, @colterphoto1, @John Albright, @Youthman, @Deang

 

 

83FB0B77-0BB4-42A3-BD76-4B103913142D.jpeg

F07CCBE8-A315-4A56-B41C-976E9F195F4D.jpeg

290-510--eminence-delta-pro-12a-specifications.pdf

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If you want to make yourself unpopular, use contact cement in a basement to attach foam to the interiors of DIY “Super Heresy” cabinets while the furnace is running.  My argument that I was providing “new car smell” to the whole house fell on deaf ears. 

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As I said before, I always preferred the look of the H1 with its metal horns, but I prefer the front mounted look of the H2.  That said, I don't like the full frontal look of a front mounted woofer with its gasket exposed.  My solution was a bit of a hybrid.  The horns are on the front of the motorboard and the woofer is attached to the rear.  After anguishing over whether to include metal grills to protect the woofers, I decided to round-over the woofer openings and put grills between the motorboards and the woofers. 

 

Part of the reason to make these scratch-built "Super Heresy" in a pro style is to make them relatively easy to transport to a party, picnic, etc., so as to not be subjected to music from Bose cubes.  The handles and metal grills are consistent with that look and use. 

 

Before anyone gets his/her knickers in a bind, there is a gasket between the grill and the motorboard, as well as between the woofer and the grill. There are no leaks . . perhaps a shallot or two, but no leaks.

 

I know it’s silly, but I like seeing the silver of the Crites titanium tweeter diaphragms when sitting in the sweet spot; much cooler than looking at phenolic.

 

Before and after photos. @MookieStl

 

Before.jpg

after.jpg

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6 hours ago, DizRotus said:

Now, whether to tweak or replace the KP-2.0A networks?  At a minimum, it would seem prudent to replace the #3504 autoformers with my #3636 autoformers from Bob Crites for more fine tuning of the squawker.  The thread linked below is informative and thought provoking.

 

To my inexpert eyes, the KP-2.0A network is the H2 network with tweeter protection for pro use.  Can, or should, the tweeter protection be removed?

 

As Claude, @ClaudeJ1, recommended, these are ported.  I could, and will, easily fashion a removable plug to make them sealable to compare.  In my small space, I plan to use them for music only without my 4 TH subs, as the bass seems sufficient for music.  With the four subs powered by 2 iNuke 1000dsp amps dialed in with Audyssey and my Onkyo AVR for HT use with different speakers, the hassle to switch the subs in and out with these seems not worth it.

 

The specs of the Eminence Delta Pro 12A woofers are attached.  The specs of the K-53-K squawker and K-56-K tweeter are, I believe, readily available.  I should point out, the tweeters have Crites’ titanium diaphragms.  

First of all, the woofer section is just fine as is. Also, removing the tweeter protection for home use would not have much consequence at all, None SONICALLY I suspect. It would just be two less part to drift at a later time (not the resistor, but the PolySwitch). I think the only thing you NEED to do is use your new Autoformers and add capacitance, say 2 uF (I have a bunch of those if you need a few), and increase the ouput of the midrange by 2-4 db. Let me know when you want to do this, as I have measurement gear and we are only 15 minutes drive time! It would be best to do this in your ROOM to get an accurate Xover point to your Subs. Besides, porting the box, only to shut off the port kind of defeats the purpose, don't you think?? Just sayin'.......................although, I must admit, you have most certainly left all the possible options open!!

 

 

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Claude, @ClaudeJ1, we'll talk. 

 

I have  ten  of the  2 uF  250v 5% "Audio Grade" Dayton caps you recommended.  Where would such a cap, or caps, be inserted in the KP-2.0A circuit?  Regarding the photo above of the KP-2.0A, I can spot the 2.5 mH inductor on the right, but what is the spool of wire in the lower left?  Is it referenced in the schematic above?

 

Plugging the port temporarily would just be experimental.  I would fashion cylinders from dense closed cell foam, like a setup EV employed many years ago.  It might  make sense when dragged to a party, picnic, etc.  Using these with my subs is a long way off, if ever.  

 

Since these will be exclusively used for 2 channel music, in the near term, the subs will stay optimized for HT use.

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For starters, I would put a 2 uF capacitor in parallel with the existing 1.5 uF capacitor, bringing the value up to 3.5 uF. Then I would increase the output of the midrange by 4 db (-6 db taps on your new Crites Autoformer). This will get you VERY close to optimum by about 1 db, worst case. The BIG MAGNET woofer will put out 3-4 db more output than the K22-KP that the original network was designed for.

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41 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

For starters, I would put a 2 uF capacitor in parallel with the existing 1.5 uF capacitor, bringing the value up to 3.5 uF. Then I would increase the output of the midrange by 4 db (-6 db taps on your new Crites Autoformer). This will get you VERY close to optimum by about 1 db, worst case. The BIG MAGNET woofer will put out 3-4 db more output than the K22-KP that the original network was designed for.

 

Thanks Claude.  I’ll do that and report my impressions. 

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I briefly played them with the TPA3118 "Wiener."  As expected, the sound was improved.  I expect to use my newly acquired TPA3255evm for most music going forward, so I'll get that working to provide the power for future crossover mod comparisons.  No more testing until I begin performing the modifications suggested above.

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14 hours ago, DizRotus said:

 I could, and will, easily fashion a removable plug to make them sealable to compare.  

 

I have a pair of JBLs tat have a single 3 inch diameter port. I used a plumbers test plug with them for about a year. Just took them back out a couple of weeks ago. They were an easy install and remove...

 

Bruce

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14 hours ago, DizRotus said:

what is the spool of wire in the lower left?  Is it referenced in the schematic above?

 

Never mind @ClaudeJ1 I figured it out.  It’s the .16 mH choke.  Until I figured that out, I was reluctant to start removing Parts from the tweeter circuit.  Now I can safely bypass the wire wound resistor and polyswitch.  The KP-2.0A networks from the F’smurfs are proving to be more useful than anticipated.  I’m glad they came on a board with a barrier strip rather than attached to a terminal cup.

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