RP-280F Lacking Bass

[apdav]

Hi,

 

I just got a pair of RP-280F, RP-440C & a pair of RP-160M. I don't have a subwoofer. I am using Denon x1300W. I am not happy with the bass on the 280F.  RP-160M surrounds seem to be putting out more bass than the RP-280F while listening to music. I have calibrated the sound using Audyssey MultiEQ, checked the wiring & so on. The fronts are wired with 14 AWG 55 feet wires each whereas the rears are close to the receiver. Could that be an issue.? Could low power from the receiver be an issue? My sound level is only at 45.  I am not even close to maxing out the receiver's output. 

 

I was so excited to get the RP-280F. I am not so happy now. People seem to say that the bass on 280F is excellent but not in my case.

 

Any ideas on what i am doing wrong or any way to debug the problem?

[ricktate]

Probably the settings on the AVR.......go back into setting set to large and turn up the bass frequencies if you can. I used Auto set up also sounded like crap. Make sure the jumpers on the back of speakers are on and tight. 

 

[hansgruber]

Room size and echo can mess with audyssey and make it sound like dirt.
I'm about to embark on a insulating mission in my room. It's an added expense I never factored in. Too much bare walls and hard tiled floors and a 7 metre roof height in a 7 x 7 metre room.
Good luck in diagnosing the problem.


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[Tarheel]

Welcome to the forum apdav

 

I have the 280Fs and am happy with the bass.  I really am surprised at the bass from that small port.  I have left my LS clones with Altec horns and drivers idle since getting the 280s.

 

Maybe Tigerman who also has 280s will have some ideas.  I believe something is amiss with your set up unless you really like heavy, chest pounding bass.

[willland]

apdav,

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

Many factors can contribute to your lack of bass situation.

Here are a few in no particular order.

---bass cancellations

---placement

---amplification

---room acoustics

---settings

 

You have work to do.

 

Bill

[dtr20]

Make sure the jumpers on the back are hooked up tight. Also, make sure you don't have a speaker out of phase. 

[Youthman]

If you walk around the room, are there certain places that have sufficient bass but not where you primary listening position is?  If so, that's due to the acoustics of your room.  You are sitting in a "Null" where two bass frequencies are cancelling out directly where you are sitting.

[Grizzog]

I would echo most comments here. Check to see if there is bass in other parts of the room, check wiring, speaker setup, etc. I had the 280s and they have an incredible amount of bass.

[apdav]

Thanks a lot for the warm welcome. Its nice to have a support community like this. 

 

I have checked & verified the speaker wire polarity & HF-LF connecters. They all seem to be fine. 

 

My media room is a 3 car garage (30 feet * 25 feet) . So, there are lots of hard surfaces (garage door, concrete floor etc.). So, naturally there is a lot of echo in the room. Disabling the Audyessy XT calibration seems to help. I switched to manual EQ & increased 63Hz - 120Hz frequency range to the max. My denon receiver is not showing options for frequencies less than 63Hz.  I also increased the bass tone to the max. Its better now but its still not enough. I am sure 280s can produce more tighter bass. 

 

Since my surround 160s seem to be producing more bass, naturally the places close to 160s seem to have decent bass. But as I get closer to 280s, bass dies down. 

 

I am relieved no-one mentioned that the receiver's power output may be the culprit.  My test music is not of very high quality. I am playing via airplay. I am waiting for my projector still. I wonder if thats one of the problems. 

 

Any other ideas are welcome. 

 

Thanks a lot guys. 

[willland]

19 minutes ago, apdav said:

My media room is a 3 car garage (30 feet * 25 feet) .

 

19 minutes ago, apdav said:

I am relieved no-one mentioned that the receiver's power output may be the culprit.

Even though your AVR's amplification/power most likely is not the problem, your room is huge with somewhere between 6000ft3 to 7000ft3.  A really big area to fill with an AVR with only 80w/ch@8ohms(20Hz to 20kHz) with 2-channels driven.  Combine that fact with hard echoing surfaces and all those things mentioned above may be contributors.

 

Bill

[garyrc]

Typically, Audyssey does a great job reducing bass room peaks, as well as smoothing out the response throughout the frequency range, BUT, since the room peaks are gone, some of the (peaky) bass that is there before calibration is gone afterwards.  A typical reaction is, "What happened to my bass?"  Don't make the mistake some do by simply turning off Audyssey.  Instead:

 

• Make sure you use all 8 mic positions.  If you will have an audience of more than two people, use the mic positions in the instructions.  If you will be listening alone, or with one other person, cluster the mic positions around the heads of the listeners.
• Turn up the bass by using the tone controls (typically unavailable unless you turn DEQ off, or if you are listening at very low volume, use DEQ).
• Make sure you are not sitting in a null.  Move your Main Listening Position and/or your 280Fs, then re-run Audyssey.   Neither Audyssey nor anything else can fill in a null, caused by cancellation (Audyssey can fill in a speaker dip, as it did between 225 and 500Hz with my Klipschorns).
• Since you have no subwoofer, make sure that any subwoofer controls on your AVR are set to "Subwoofer NO"  or "None" or "OFF," depending on the terminology your AVR manual uses.
• Make sure your speakers are set (on the AVR) to LARGE, since you have no subwoofer.
• Harman (and others) have done research that shows that most people not only prefer bass that is elevated by up to 9 dB at the low end compared to the high end, but they think that such a curve is "flat."   Part of this is pure preference, but part is because many recordings are bass shy (except for movie sound effects).  People using Audyssey, boost the bass after running Audyssey.  Most bass tone controls now provide only about 6 dB boost, a little less than Harman calls for, but people with subwoofers turn them up by 9 dB with a 80 Hz crossover, and turn up their bass control to supply a good boost through the front main speakers above 80Hz.  Audyssey provides them with a smooth curve to begin with, and they can then turn up the bass smoothly with their AVR bass controls and sub level control.  This provides a good splice, and people with REW can design it well.  The bass control I am referring to is under "tone controls."  The virtual graphic equalizer sliders cannot be used with Audyssey, except by means of "base copy," which Chris K., co-founder and CTO of Audyssey calls "useless."  I'm guessing he says that because "base copy" is very crude, and replaces the hundreds of points Audyssey uses with just a few.  The true bass control preserves the smoothness of the Audyssey curve, then allows you to smoothly boost.  It also allows you to boost all the way to the bottom, rather than stopping at 63 Hz, if you are not using a subwoofer.  If your AVR has an Audyssey indicator light, make sure it is still on after you finish making adjustments.

• Read through the following.  It may be the best 30 minutes you can spend on improving your sound.  "Audyssey FAQ Linked Here"

• How loud will you play the system?  How far away from the fronts will you sit?   If you want to playback at reference level, you may need about the full rated power of your AVR to achieve the needed peaks of 105 dB through each speaker simultaneously.  Most people playback below reference, possibly because most people are underpowered, therefore hear distortion at high volumes.

  If you will playback below reference, the best thing to do might be to get the best powered subwoofer you can afford.  It will take some of the burden off your AVR and speakers.

   

  Here is a possible room target curve from JBL.  My preferences would probably be a bit different, with less of a dip above 8K and more bass boost between 100 and 200 Hz, where some of the impact is. https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSo7Bpqp277GWR26-fE4YuK5m2nUvRtzjAYz2Epnz9kdZiXmwVB

 

[apdav]

Thanks a lot guys. Lots of useful advice. Turning on Audyssey & Dynamic EQ & then adjusting 280 speaker levels helps. 

[Peter P.]

Since the 160's seem to be putting out more bass, can you relocate the 280's to the position the 160's are in, just for test purposes to see if their bass output increases? If it does, then you'll know it's the media room that's the problem and not the AVR or the speakers.

[bangkokbro]

klipsch rp-280f woofer won't work the tweeter is fine but no Bass sound is coming out my other RP 280F is fine