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loco1

does Yamaha RX-V681 match RP-160M?

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Speaker RP-160M:

FREQUENCY RESPONSE 45-25kHz +/- 3dB
SENSITIVITY 96dB @ 2.83V / 1m
POWER HANDLING (CONT/PEAK) 100W/400W
NOMINAL IMPEDANCE 8 Ohms Compatible


=====================================================

Yamaha RX-V681:

AV Receiver        
    Amplifier Section    Channel    7.2
    Rated Output Power (1kHz, 1ch driven)              150 W (4 ohms, 0.9% THD)
    Rated Output Power (20Hz-20kHz, 2ch driven)    90 W (8 ohms, 0.06% THD)
    Maximum Effective Output Power (1kHz, 1ch driven) (JEITA)    150 W (8 ohms, 10% THD)
    Dynamic Power per Channel (8/6/4/2 ohms)       125 / 165 / 190 / 235 W

 

who knows ?

if not match ,how should I change the AV Receiver ?
 

 

Edited by loco1

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loco1,

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

The Yamaha should be a fine match with the RP-160M's especially if you are only powering two speakers.  Also should be fine with multichannel music/movies unless you are trying to fill a huge room with loud volumes.

 

Bill

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2 hours ago, willland said:

loco1,

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

The Yamaha should be a fine match with the RP-160M's especially if you are only powering two speakers.  Also should be fine with multichannel music/movies unless you are trying to fill a huge room with loud volumes.

 

Bill

thx for answer my question,and I want to ask another question,does this AV V681 fit the hifi Reviever ,can it make great sound with RP-160m,do i need to switch to Yamaha A-S501

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That's going to depend on your listening habits. The S501 is a system designed explicitly for 2 channel listening, which would cater it mainly for music. The V681 is an AVR designed to handle multiple assignments including music and movies.  If you plan on using this mainly for music, I'd suggest the S501, if you want the options for surrounds in the future, go with the V681.

 

Incidentally, if you have not yet purchased an AVR, I would suggest you look at the RX-A (AVENTAGE) Series from Yamaha over the RX-V681 - if a surround sound AVR is your preference.

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1 hour ago, The History Kid said:

That's going to depend on your listening habits. The S501 is a system designed explicitly for 2 channel listening, which would cater it mainly for music. The V681 is an AVR designed to handle multiple assignments including music and movies.  If you plan on using this mainly for music, I'd suggest the S501, if you want the options for surrounds in the future, go with the V681.

 

Incidentally, if you have not yet purchased an AVR, I would suggest you look at the RX-A (AVENTAGE) Series from Yamaha over the RX-V681 - if a surround sound AVR is your preference.

thx so much!

so many questions come.

Speakers,AVR,Player,which is important?

I decide to buy a new Yamaha network player NP-S303 

59886a454bc7b_20170807212257.jpg.88579b1c083e2ef758e5809f5c45e031.jpg

 

=======================================================================

S501:

Minimum RMS Output Power (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz)    85 W + 85 W (0.019% THD)
High Dynamic Power/Channel (8/6/4/2 ohms)                 130 / 150 / 185 / 220 W
Frequency Response                                                        10 Hz -100 kHz +/- 1.0 dB
Total Harmonic Distortion (CD to Sp Out, 20 Hz-20 kHz) 0.019% (50 W / 8 ohms)
Signal-to-Noise Ratio (CD) 99 dB (input shorted, 200 mV)

 

========================================================================

so,the player NP-S303+ HiFi Reciever A-S501+the speaker RP-160M,does the music  sound awsome?

do I need to buy a Network player or just use the V681?because the NP-S303 cost $382 dollars if I buy it from Amazon japan ,and V681 cost $411 dollars in my city.

and using V681 I can upgrade my HT.

what should I do for the music?

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1 hour ago, loco1 said:

so,the player NP-S303+ HiFi Reciever A-S501+the speaker RP-160M,does the music  sound awsome?

I think that would be a nice combination.

 

1 hour ago, loco1 said:

do I need to buy a Network player or just use the V681?

If you are going network player and integrated amp(A-S501) for stereo only, then yes.  If you will have a combination setup with the AVR(RV-X681) for music and multichannel movies(5.1, 7.1, etc.), then no need for network player since AVR does networking.

 

Bill

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1 hour ago, willland said:

I think that would be a nice combination.

 

If you are going network player and integrated amp(A-S501) for stereo only, then yes.  If you will have a combination setup with the AVR(RV-X681) for music and multichannel movies(5.1, 7.1, etc.), then no need for network player since AVR does networking.

 

Bill

thx thx very much,I have many questions and dont know how to describe with my poor english.

No.1. if we select Digital output(SPDIF or COAXIAL),Yamaha NP-S303 and V681 does the same thing,is that correct?

 

No.2. if No.1 is correct ,when we plug them to A-S501 with digital signal input ,then S501 do the DAC works,and then output to Speakers,the awsome sound depends on S501,is that correct?

 

No.3. if No2 is correct,can we replace the Network player (S303 or V681)with PC,using Digital signal(SPDIF or COAXIAL)output to S501,and then output to Speakers,does the sound close to No.2?

 

No.4 if we select Analog output to S501 using NP-S303,then S303 itself do the DAC works,and if DAC in S303 is better than DAC in S501,is the sound better than No.2 or No.3?

Edited by loco1

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Hi Loco,

 

New member here. I only recently purchased a set of Klipsch rp-160m's and have them mated to a Yamaha TSR-5810 that I purchased through Costco (warehouse store, in case you don't have this in your area.) The TSR-5810 is the same as the RX-V581, which is the younger brother to the model you mention - the RX-V681. I also just purchased a Klipsch r-12sw. I have this set up in my family room for music and tv/movies. I have always had a "music first" mentality when it came to home audio.

 

I have to say, I'm super happy with this set up. Sounds fantastic. The receiver allows for "scenes" where you change all types of settings on a particular input and the receiver will remember those settings. So...for music (streaming from Spotify - which this network receiver has built-in) I am utlizing the receiver's "straight" setting, which is basically 2 channel audio + a sub. For movies, I'm using "standard" which enabled dolby decoding, etc (takes advantage of the LFE channel in movie sound tracks, etc.)

 

The receiver also has the option to bi-amp your speakers (which the RP-160m's allow for.) I've not tried this, but am looking forward to giving it a shot in the next month or so. Finally, the last thought I had was - perhaps you should look at a slightly nicer receiver - I *think* the RX-V781 - which has pre-amp outs. This way you could mate a discreet, 2 channel power amp to your receiver later on and give you the best of both worlds. 

 

Anyway, I hope this information is helpful. Best of luck!

 

Tyler

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3 hours ago, tylersmith said:

The receiver also has the option to bi-amp your speakers (which the RP-160m's allow for.) I've not tried this, but am looking forward to giving it a shot in the next month or so.

Be careful.  What you are describing is bi-wiring, not bi-amping.  Bi-Amping requires you to override the crossover built into the speaker and use an outboard active crossover.  Bi-Wiring is controversial to say the least.  In a multi-channel configuration it's unlikely that you'd notice any difference other than losing two channels and using more wire.  Some even claim that it can impede available wattage to speakers that need it.

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On 9/8/2017 at 6:32 PM, The History Kid said:

Be careful.  What you are describing is bi-wiring, not bi-amping.  Bi-Amping requires you to override the crossover built into the speaker and use an outboard active crossover.  Bi-Wiring is controversial to say the least.  In a multi-channel configuration it's unlikely that you'd notice any difference other than losing two channels and using more wire.  Some even claim that it can impede available wattage to speakers that need it.

Hey @The History Kid

 

Thanks! The receiver actually uses 2 unused amp channels (presence channels i think) when the bi-amp option is utilized. I figured the receiver would use it's built in crossover and was planning on running 2 sets of speaker wires to each speaker. Is this still acceptable / safe? Appreciate the help!

 

T

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1 minute ago, tylersmith said:

The receiver actually uses 2 unused amp channels (presence channels i think) when the bi-amp option is utilized. I figured the receiver would use it's built in crossover and was planning on running 2 sets of speaker wires to each speaker. Is this still acceptable / safe? Appreciate the help!

I understand how it utilizes the amplifier's channels, but there is no discrete crossover for each channel respectively, which makes them ill suited for executing a bi-amp.  Further even if it did utilize a discrete crossover - you'd have to bypass the crossover that's built into the speaker.  That'd involve removing the terminal cup, and removing the bread board inside the speaker.

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@The History Kid - hey man - another question for you, if you don't mind answering. I've been reading up on this a bunch, trying to familiarize myself with the topic (holy smokes does it get in-depth pretty quickly.)

 

If what I'm trying to achieve through "bi-amping" (if we can call it that - "passive bi-amping" might be a better term for it, no?) is to double my effective power by running 2 amps per speaker, can that be achieved by procuring wire that goes from 4 banana plugs to 2 and leaving the jumpers in place at the speaker? Or...as I might have read elsewhere (not sure anymore...) will I still be impeded by the max load on any ONE amp channel - which will distort based on the low end frequencies. Basically, I'd only be saving a nominal amount of headroom by running this AVR "bi-amp" configuration - whatever headroom is gained by the low end amp channels not having to drive the high end drivers?

 

Do I have things decently sorted?

 

Thanks for your time!

 

T

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49 minutes ago, tylersmith said:

If what I'm trying to achieve through "bi-amping" (if we can call it that - "passive bi-amping" might be a better term for it, no?) is to double my effective power by running 2 amps per speaker, can that be achieved by procuring wire that goes from 4 banana plugs to 2 and leaving the jumpers in place at the speaker? Or...as I might have read elsewhere (not sure anymore...) will I still be impeded by the max load on any ONE amp channel - which will distort based on the low end frequencies. Basically, I'd only be saving a nominal amount of headroom by running this AVR "bi-amp" configuration - whatever headroom is gained by the low end amp channels not having to drive the high end drivers?

Passive Bi-Amping does not "double" the effective power per channel.  Remember, you are allotted a finite amount of power in any given amplifier.  Let's assume for a minute we are using the spec's of the Yamaha RX-730 (older model, but I have one here for reference).  The specs indicate that it is 80 WPC.  It has A/B speaker ports.  The feature list indicates 80 x 6.  The problem with 80 x 6 is that the spec sheet only calls for 80 WPC two channels driven - not 6, let alone the extra 2 channels.  So that 80 WPC quickly is reduced to 60, possibly even 40.  If you include two more channels, you may drop that load from 40 to 30 or 25 WPC all channels driven.

 

Now you might think to yourself "but that's still 50 or 60 instead of 40, right?"

 

It takes 2x the power to make a 3 dB difference - the lowest amount of dB that is noticeable in steps of loudness.  So, if you're only going from 40 or 50 to 60...

40 -> 50 means you would only see 0.667 dB of increase - not enough to tell.

40 -> 60 means you would see 1.333 dB of increase - not even half way to telling the difference.

 

Remember - wattage is finite.  People have this bad knack of looking at WPC and wattage and assuming that's what they need to focus on - it is not.  Look at your speaker's sensitivity - 96 dB at 1 Watt at 3 feet away.  That means if you give those speakers only 1 watt of good clean power, they will output 96 dB of loudness if you're standing 3 feet away.  2 watts would be 99 dB, 4 - 102, 8 - 105, etc.

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Very helpful. What if the receiver in question has dedicated amp channels (I believe mine does, although I could be mistaken.) My receiver is rated at 80wpc (probably @ 2 channels driven, like you mention.)

 

Thanks!

T

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I've yet to see any of the newer amps have matching amperage and wattage on those channels.  Most that I've seen are half to a quarter of the wattage of the other channels.  You might see if Yamaha specifies that in the manual.  Still, even if they were a full 80 watts, you're getting 3 dB of increase - that's a lot of wires for something you may not use.  (Assuming the amp is 60 WPC all channels driven, those speakers should produce about 114 dB or there about - well over reference.)

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This is the best that I can come up with in the manual. I see the "2-channel driven" but then I suppose it's confusing that it lists all 7 channels in the lowest section...  Appreciate the dialog! So you would assume that the "all channels driven" number is much lower than the stated 80w or 95w?

 

 

 

image.png.247ba7f2616f56c9c57cac2df7dedc7a.png

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1 hour ago, tylersmith said:

If what I'm trying to achieve through "bi-amping" (if we can call it that - "passive bi-amping" might be a better term for it, no?) is to double my effective power by running 2 amps per speaker, can that be achieved by procuring wire that goes from 4 banana plugs to 2 and leaving the jumpers in place at the speaker?

Hi Tyler, I've found this to be a very clear explanation of how to bi-wire, or bi-amp.  They are two completely different setups.

https://sewelldirect.com/learning-center/bi-wire-and-bi-amp

 

There are other issues to discuss when planning to do this, but I did not want to go too far out in thread drift.  If you'd like to discuss it further, please feel free to ask and we'll dig up some previous threads on the subject which will address your questions and concerns about the effectiveness of bi-wiring and bi-amping.

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1 hour ago, tylersmith said:

So you would assume that the "all channels driven" number is much lower than the stated 80w or 95w?

I would say maybe just over half that.  If giving the benefit of the doubt, say 64?

 

1 hour ago, wvu80 said:

Hi Tyler, I've found this to be a very clear explanation of how to bi-wire, or bi-amp.  They are two completely different setups.

The only thing this article doesn't describe is HOW the amplifier a.) delegates high frequency and low frequency (What's the cutoff?  How does it know?) and b.) how it overrides the built in crossover.  But...I digress - you're right...we've floated a bit. haha

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