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RB61 II A few questions


JohnThePipe

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Hi, 

First of all i am not a good writer of forums, and English isn`t my native language, so this might be harder to read. 

 

I`ll start this with a little background information :

I have a pair of RB61-II hooked up to a Pioneer VSX-918v receiver. I also have as my "PC" speakers a pair of JBL LSR308 studio monitors. Source is a pc, with a Lexicon io-22 soundcard ( for both setups )

 

I have gotten used to the "full" and pure sound of the JBl`s at close range and at a normal volume.

I love the The Klipsch speakers, BUT i need to put a lot of power in them to shine. They sound muddy at volumes that don`t shake the house. The amp`s volume goes from -60 to +30. I have to be in the range of 0-10 to enjoy the Klipsch`s. This is an amp that is advertised 120w per. channel, so o a little calculation will tell me i need around 80-90w to make the Klipsch`s sound good. 

I keep reading that these speakers sound perfect on a 30w tube amp / 60w integrated. 

 

The Klipsch speakers are new ( 20-30 hours at a medium volume of -20 ). 

There are 2 possibilities here : Either the speakers are not "broken-in" OR the amp is s**t. ( I think i need to change the amp anyways as it is a budget model. )

 

Please advise :)

 

 

 

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Welcome to the Klipsch Forum @JohnThePipe.  Your English is terrific, easy to read and understand.

 

I do not own either the Pioneer or the RB-61's that you do so I cannot be of much help.  Pioneer is known to sound good with Klipsch and 120 wpc is plenty for the RB-61's. 

 

When you hooked up the RB-61's to the Pioneer, did you re-run MCACC?  This sounds like a set up problem.

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I have set-up the Pioneer to be as direct as it can be. 
Stereo, Stream Direct ( from the manual : Stream Direct playback bypasses the tone controls for the most accurate reproduction of a source ). 

MCACC is set manually to front output, and set to 3meters ( measured by tape to the listening place ). I have somehow lost the MCACC microphone. 

 

I`ll borrow an Onkyo from a colleague and test. 

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I'm not a Pioneer expert however I believe "stream direct" may bypass tone controls yet still does digital processing: MCACC, distance, levels, eq etc.  As a test, try Pure Direct to see if this helps.  Not saying you need to end up here, but it would eliminate some variables.

 

BTW - what did you have hooked up to your pioneer previously?

 

I agree with Dave - you should have plenty of power.  Very rarely do we get complaints about Klipsch being too soft :-)

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Nothing like "Pure Direct" in the manual .. 

Also the power is plenty, but for the speakers to shine and have "presence" i need to put a lot of power in them. Again, i am comparing to close-field monitors. 


Previously i had a pair of cheap ( 250$ ) Chinese copies of B&W 683. Pieces of garbage. No tone, no presence, no nothing. Just big boxes that looked nice. 

 

As i have somehow not mentioned this until now : I use 24/96 flac and blu-ray concerts as audio source via the PC. 

 

I can tell you where i felt the difference the most.

Pink Floyd - High Hopes 24/96 japan disk, ripped to FLAC. These have the proper dynamic range ( no loudness wars ).

 

I set the level to a comfortable level on both systems. The beginning piano part being at the same level ( ear measurement ) on the Klipsch and JBL. When the voice comes on, with the JBL`s it feels that he`s in the same room, in front of me. With the Klipsch i have to increase the volume by 20-30 % to get the same effect disturbing all neighbors. 

 

Is there such a thing as  listening to 50% volume for 100 hours to "break-in" the speakers?

 

 

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Did "pure direct" help you at all?  It sounds like you are describing a mid-range EQ issue - either the receiver has something dialed-back in the midrange or the Klipsch are just different than what you are used to with the JBLs.  However, when I play that song via iTunes over bluetooth to my Klipsch R-15PMs, the voice is definitely out in front of the piano.  You shouldn't have to crank your RB-61's to feel like that voice is "present."  (Your RB-61's are definitely a step-up from my R-15PMs.)

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2 minutes ago, pbphoto said:

Did "pure direct" help you at all?  It sounds like you are describing a mid-range EQ issue - either the receiver has something dialed-back in the midrange or the Klipsch are just different than what you are used to with the JBLs.  However, when I play that song via iTunes over bluetooth to my Klipsch R-15PM, the voice is definitely out in front of the piano.  You shouldn't have to crank your RB-61's to feel like that voice is "present."

Klipsch are very different in the mids I would figure.  Positioning and angle to the speaker will definitely matter significantly.  Klipsch is most likely hotter in the treble compared to the JBLs.  I know I added a resistor and some wadding on a set of RF82's I just bought to bring mids out better.  Also found out my Pioneer receiver was terrible in the mids unless left on for a day or two. 

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5 hours ago, JohnThePipe said:

Is there such a thing as  listening to 50% volume for 100 hours to "break-in" the speakers?

Not with Klipsch speakers.  I think most speakers need a little break-in, but after a week of normal use they should work 99% as good as they are going to get.

 

I have owned some DIY speakers with 15" Eminence pro audio woofers that were VERY stiff out of the box.  They sounded thin and tinny when new and did take a month to break-in.

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15 hours ago, pzannucci said:

Klipsch are very different in the mids I would figure.  Positioning and angle to the speaker will definitely matter significantly.  Klipsch is most likely hotter in the treble compared to the JBLs.  I know I added a resistor and some wadding on a set of RF82's I just bought to bring mids out better.  Also found out my Pioneer receiver was terrible in the mids unless left on for a day or two. 

 

So .. i watched 4 episodes of GoT last evening, and after those tough i should do some more tests. After running the speakers and amp for ~4 hours at a cinema-ish level, the music sounds a LOT better even at lower volumes. 

I know that PA speakers and amplifiers need to be "heated" to operational volume. It seems that consumer amplifiers need that also. ( Klipsch speakers also ? )

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2 hours ago, JohnThePipe said:

 

So .. i watched 4 episodes of GoT last evening, and after those tough i should do some more tests. After running the speakers and amp for ~4 hours at a cinema-ish level, the music sounds a LOT better even at lower volumes. 

I know that PA speakers and amplifiers need to be "heated" to operational volume. It seems that consumer amplifiers need that also. ( Klipsch speakers also ? )

Not sure it's the speakers but they probably did need some initial break in.  

I found out the receiver portion of the equation when I got these rf82IIs.  Played some music through them, did some tweaks of course shutting off the receiver, turned it back on and listened and there was no body, like a hole in the voices.  I was quite annoyed figuring what else I needed to do to raise the mids.  Left the receiver on all the time and after several days went back and listened, the speakers sounded much better.  I had experienced something similar with my Bel Canto amps but never to this degree.

These are all IcePower based amps and it has been stated they need to stabilize but I never knew to what degree.

Now I need to beat on the speakers to break them in then decide if they become Christmas presents or not and the KLF30s get put back in place.

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