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MassiveG

Have my speakers outgrown my receiver? Looking for advice

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Hi!

I'm looking for some advice on receivers, I'll admit my HT audio knowledge is rudimentary.. (working on fixing that wink.gif)

A while back I had bought the Onkyo TX-NR646 for its Atmos compatibility, this was when I had the smaller size of Klipsch RP speakers.
I've since upgraded my setup to 5.2.2 - L/R Klipsch RF 7II, center RC-64II, surround RS-62II, atmos RP-140SA and 2x SVS SB2000 subs.

I realize Klipsch speakers are considered conservative as far as power is concerned, but would I notice an improvement in audio quality if I upgraded my receiver? I was considering the Denon AVR-X4200W to this end as well as being able to step up to 7.2.2
 
I will admit, it's hard for me to imagine these speakers sounding better.  When my SO and I first listened to them they took our breath away.  It truly felt like there weren't speakers in the room, rather the MOVIE was happening in the room!

We're now Klipsch fans for life.  :D

Any thoughts would be appreciated!  Also, I mainly use the speaker setup for movies and games.

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Welcome to the forums.  I was going to suggest adding a powered amp (200 x 2 or 200 x 3) for your front speakers but unfortunately your receiver does not have preouts.

 

Keep in mind, the more speakers you add to your system, typically the less wattage the receiver will send to each speaker.  I had a Yamaha RX-V1800 and it sounded fantastic with 5 speakers.  Once I connected two more, it's like the sound became lifeless.  I later found out the 130 x 7 claim ended up being more like 55 x 7. 

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MassiveG,

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

I can't say for sure that replacing your AVR with Denon 4200 will be an earth shattering improvement but it definitely will not be a downgrade.

 

Even though the RF-7II system does not "need" tons of power, it sure likes it.  Headroom baby.:D 

 

1 hour ago, Youthman said:

I was going to suggest adding a powered amp (200 x 2 or 200 x 3) for your front speakers but unfortunately your receiver does not have preouts.

I am all about suggesting adding an outboard amp but with your current Onkyo AVR it just can't happen. 

 

What size room do you have?  How loud do you like it?

 

Bill

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I am running the denon avr-x6200w quick is a couple of years old now, but it was a 9 channel receiver and could process 11 with preouts. This receiver allows you to do 7.2.4 atmos as long as you have a separate amp for at least 2 channels. The 6300h is the newer, better 11 channel receiver. I am using separate amps for my 7 main speakers and using the receiver for my 4 atmos speakers.

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No matter what receiver you get, it will always be somewhat limited in how much current it can send to all the speakers

So from that perspective, a change will not be likely to change the power output to the speakers

 

But that Denon would give you the 7 speakers you want, and also Audyssey XT32, which be an improvement in room correction

 

The sensitivity of the speakers you have is so high that I'm not even sure you'll want external amplification

***  How big your room is, and how loud you listen can help determine this  *** 

 

With external amplification I have found the dynamic changes are more powerful, the attack is stronger

But let's say in your room at the volume you  listen you only are using 25w a channel anyway...there may be a much better way to upgrade

 

More info, we can figure it out for sure  

 

 

 

 

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I agree with everybody above ^^^ in that your speaker system can outgrow your AVR.

 

I had the Onk 717 which was rated at 110 wpc.  I think the newer Onks sound great with Klipsch but just as @Youthman suggested as you add speakers the sound gets more dull for each speaker pair you add.  

 

I can run 9.2 with my Marantz SR-6011 but I prefer the live! sound and dynamic headroom of 3.1 most of the time and 5.2 when I get crazy listening to movies.

 

FYI the SR-6011 can support Atmos 5.2.4 and because the newer models just came out the price dropped from $1400 a month ago to $999 on Amazon.

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I'm going to try to not derail the thread too much but have what I think is a related question that @Youthman & @willland have touched on.

 

I'm running 4.0 in our LR, 600 sq ft, MLP about 12' from the tv & Cornwalls, with the R-28F my GF bought me on back surround.  I use the DTR 60.5 & vertical CW listed in my sig.  I find it a bit surprising and a little disappointing that when I'm in the mood for it, with the DTR @ reference output, I'd still like a little more from the CW mains.  it is loud, but would still like a little more.

 

the DTR sheet claims 135 wpc but I don't see where it details how many channels driven.  so I'm thinking that down the line, if we're still in this home & room, we may need some outboard power to get where I'd like to be.  your thoughts?  thanks.

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Thanks for the replies, guys!

 

My HT is in a pretty small, but sound controlled, room.  It's around 16x19' and I don't hear any distortion at higher volumes although it doesn't take a whole lot of volume to fill the room entirely.


@Youthman mentioning the more speakers you have the more lifeless they can sound, which gives me pause as I've never heard another receiver for comparison.

Before getting the Reference II line, I never knew there could be such a difference from the RP!  I wonder if a different receiver would have a similar effect.

 

Although I saw that my receiver is 170 Watts per Channel, and the Denon AVRX6300H is 175 which doesn't seem like a huge difference for a beefy new model.  I wonder if that slight increase in headroom would lend to overall cleaner sound.  
Outside of that, new Audyssey Processing and 7.2.2 is tempting but if sound quality would be largely the same I may wait until some of the newer receivers go down in price.

 

After looking over some reviews due to the size of my room, I'm not sure if an amp would be needed unless there are benefits outside of louder sound.

 

Definitely helps me to read all of your experiences!  I've been pouring over the Klipsch forums for months now, it's a blast.

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59 minutes ago, MassiveG said:

Although I saw that my receiver is 170 Watts per Channel,

ONE channel driven.  It drops to 100 wpc with two channels driven.  If you only got 40-50 wpc with all speakers driven as @Youthmansuggested, I would not be surprised.

https://www.onkyousa.com/Products/model.php?m=TX-NR646&class=Receiver

 

I am an Onkyo fanboy, but I find that kind of advertising on power ratings deceptive.  Who runs a home theater on only one channel?

 

The Denon AVR-X4200W is 140 wpc 2 channels driven.  Much stronger.

https://usa.denon.com/us/product/hometheater/receivers/avrx6300h

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1 hour ago, wvu80 said:

I am an Onkyo fanboy, but I find that kind of advertising on power ratings deceptive.  Who runs a home theater on only one channel?

This frustrates me too.

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5 hours ago, willland said:

Even though the RF-7II system does not "need" tons of power, it sure likes it.  Headroom baby.:D 

 

Agree.  It's been my experience that it's rarely an issue except for nearly full range playing.  It has some impedance dips that receivers apparently don't like when cranked up to 11 or when playing multichannel music.  However I have heard them while being powered by a $7,500 amp and it just wasn't the same, The waterfall scene in The Lorax was very full and clean sounding, I could not pull it off with my flagship Marantz receiver.  Mine didn't sound like it was clipping but it still just wasn't on the same level.  

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Ive read bench tests on my Denon model and it doess actually output most of what it claims

 

170watts is plenty imo.   even if it is 100 it should pass reference no prob.

 

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6 hours ago, -js- said:

I'm going to try to not derail the thread too much but have what I think is a related question that @Youthman & @willland have touched on.

 

I'm running 4.0 in our LR, 600 sq ft, MLP about 12' from the tv & Cornwalls, with the R-28F my GF bought me on back surround.  I use the DTR 60.5 & vertical CW listed in my sig.  I find it a bit surprising and a little disappointing that when I'm in the mood for it, with the DTR @ reference output, I'd still like a little more from the CW mains.  it is loud, but would still like a little more.

 

the DTR sheet claims 135 wpc but I don't see where it details how many channels driven.  so I'm thinking that down the line, if we're still in this home & room, we may need some outboard power to get where I'd like to be.  your thoughts?  thanks.

my first thought is you are listening to music?

you cant buy fronts with sensitivity much higher.

 

i would guess the source material is low....is this an issue w movies?

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As I recall,  not an issue with movies.  Plenty of volume then. I love my system but don't use it that much really.  Best that I remember,  only an issue when playing music,  most likely when using the digital store on my NAS as source,  where quality may not be that great.  It does sound good.  With the sensitivity of the speakers,  I expected I would have to 'cry uncle ' before getting to reference level.  Not the case. 

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I'm thinking since my current receiver, as far as I can tell, sounds fine that I'll wait and see what deals I can spot on Black Friday.

 

I'm considering a 9 channel receiver so I could expand in the future to a 7.2.2 setup, but I'm not sure if that would even be worth it in the size rooms I have available as dedicated HT rooms. (roughly 16x19')  I'm considering if I'd notice 5.2.4 more.

 

What receivers would you guys recommend?  I'm hesitant to consider Onkyo again as I'm not really a fan of room EQ.

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2 hours ago, MassiveG said:

What receivers would you guys recommend?  I'm hesitant to consider Onkyo again as I'm not really a fan of room EQ.

Budget?

 

And what do you mean by "room eq?"  Do you mean all room EQ's like Audyssey, or the Onkyo version of room correction which dropped Audyssey years ago?

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