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Sprogk

Belle Klipsch..new to me

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On 9/5/2017 at 5:30 AM, Sprogk said:


I might pick up a Luxman and see how that sounds.

So most of you guys listen to vinyl or CD's? What other sources?
I do not get too crazy about internet streaming source quality but do prefer Spotify premium over XM or Pandora. No good reason. I do like artist playlists for education of my adult children for some music I do not own. Nillson, Randy Newman ,The Move......

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Great looking example of Belles! I acquired my pair in July I believe.

 

large.IMG_2024.jpg.7adbda8f95d3f9621db61cd9fc1fc695.jpg

 

I believe mine to be in original condition (no new caps or mods, etc) and an early set. For me, 25 watts/channel (MC225) is plenty of power for any volume I could possibly want. I listened a little with a 40 watt/channel amp (MC240) and with a pair of MC225s strapped for 50 watts/channel. I have not listened with a SS amp yet and when I do it will be an original condition Yamaha M40. I am sure your chosen amp sound great - how do you like it?

 

large.IMG_0005.JPG.aed11961997d4a88f210ea7a87aa2bf3.JPG

 

 

IMG_0238.jpg

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Great looking example of Belles! I acquired my pair in July I believe.
 
large.IMG_2024.jpg.7adbda8f95d3f9621db61cd9fc1fc695.jpg
 
I believe mine to be in original condition (no new caps or mods, etc) and an early set. For me, 25 watts/channel (MC225) is plenty of power for any volume I could possibly want. I listened a little with a 40 watt/channel amp (MC240) and with a pair of MC225s strapped for 50 watts/channel. I have not listened with a SS amp yet and when I do it will be an original condition Yamaha M40. I am sure your chosen amp sound great - how do you like it?
 
large.IMG_0005.JPG.aed11961997d4a88f210ea7a87aa2bf3.JPG
 
 
IMG_0238.thumb.jpg.f2274e3f2a775326f8d40f383e9ccfc5.jpg



Great looking belle's! The Luxman is an incredible amplifier . I don't even use the tone controls..there's no need to. Lots of power too!


It would great to test the Luxman side/side to a tube amp. One day!!

This Luxman model has a "separate mode" which separates the pre & power amp...which allows me to use a tube pre-amp.



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Great looking example of Belles! I acquired my pair in July I believe.
 
In what area do you live?
 
 


In Louisville for work at the moment . Home is Michigan



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I used to live in Evansville - not that it would have helped if your gear is in Michigan, but being in Houston, lending you a tube amp to try is a little challenging!

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I used to live in Evansville - not that it would have helped if your gear is in Michigan, but being in Houston, lending you a tube amp to try is a little challenging!



Yes it will. My plan is to use the SS pre for some time before trying this tube pre amp from Luxman...

317fee458efa6c800bbfd5a0e26d784d.jpg


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On 8/28/2017 at 2:31 PM, jimjimbo said:

Everyone has opinions on capacitors, but I have recently enjoyed the ClarityCap CSA line from Parts Connexion on my AA crossovers if you want to step up a bit from the Dayton's without spending a bunch....

 

http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_claritycap_esa_630.html

 

Didn't PWK write a paper or DFH on making electrically appropriate capacitors out of whiskey bottles and other junk (to make a point)?  True, there may be differences in lifespan between caps, and for all I know, real audible differences even when new, but those with the background may have a variety of opinions. 

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13 minutes ago, garyrc said:

 

Didn't PWK write a paper or DFH on making electrically appropriate capacitors out of whiskey bottles and other junk (to make a point)?  True, there may be differences in lifespan between caps, and for all I know, real audible differences even when new, but those with the background may have a variety of opinions. 

Gary: you have lost me. I do not understand what it is that you are trying to say or not say. Previous post jimjimbo makes a comment and a suggestion, he first qualifies that people have different opinions about capacitors then tells of his recent experience with Clarity Caps suggesting that they are a nice step up  to Dayton caps which are a common and popular inexpensive cap to upgrade with for those on a budget.

   If you insist upon jumping on people who make such comments because you do not agree with them then pretty soon they will stop commenting then not long after that they will stop coming back. You made you point, you do not hear a difference or do not feel the difference is of value, I don't know and it does not matter. It's not your job to save folks from making bad capacitor choices and it just comes off like after the fact back seat driving.

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26 minutes ago, moray james said:

Gary: you have lost me. I do not understand what it is that you are trying to say or not say. Previous post jimjimbo makes a comment and a suggestion, he first qualifies that people have different opinions about capacitors then tells of his recent experience with Clarity Caps suggesting that they are a nice step up  to Dayton caps which are a common and popular inexpensive cap to upgrade with for those on a budget.

   If you insist upon jumping on people who make such comments because you do not agree with them then pretty soon they will stop commenting then not long after that they will stop coming back. You made you point, you do not hear a difference or do not feel the difference is of value, I don't know and it does not matter. It's not your job to save folks from making bad capacitor choices and it just comes off like after the fact back seat driving.

I agree Moray,  I don’t understand either.

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On 8/28/2017 at 5:06 PM, Sprogk said:

 


Thank you. I am experiencing amplifier overload lol emoji3.png. Who on this forum has heard Luxman? The Luxman 590Axii is about 30W per channel. Perfect but who know what it will sound like....


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I had a Luxman L580 integrated amp for several years.  As I said in a previous post, it was the best sounding solid state I ever had in my home (beating NAD, Yahama, Marantz) and was used with Klipschorns, which have the same drivers as the Belle (but the Belle has a shorter mid horn and, naturally, a shorter bass horn).   The Luxman also had the most useful set of tone controls I've seen (a choice of 3 turnover frequencies and slopes for each tone control, plus a "bass boost" switch at 70 and 140 Hz, plus some filters.  It had 80 "true" watts per channel (RMS, both channels operating), more than enough for a Belle.   I now have a Belle center channel (between flanking Khorns), and it sounds beautiful; it is powered by an NAD 150 w.p.c. power amp.

 

I agree with those who have advocated working on the room, speaker positions, and main listening position first.  They are big variables.  You will hear many claiming that the Belle only goes down smoothly to about 80 or 90 Hz.  A lot of this depends on room position & listener position.  My Belle has a little peak at 60 Hz, and it's  -3 dB point is about 40 Hz, in its current position.  If it looks possible in your room, try putting each Belle in a corner.  That normally would increase the bass, and be equivalent of multiplying your amp power by 4 (i.e., 6 dB) in the bass, compared to placing them out in the room a few feet.  The Belles should be toe'd in so the tweeters are aimed at your ears.  Corner placement, while it  increases the bass, requires some careful handling.  If you do try them in corners, you should act to reduce any midrange or treble reflection from the now nearby side walls.  Put some absorption on the side walls starting from where a stick pressed flat across the front of the midrange and treble horns, parallel to the floor, would touch the side walls and continue the absorption for 2 feet farther out into the room, along the walls.  This is the advice given by Chris A for corner horns.  Even though you don't have corner horns, it is good advice if speakers are in the corners [see Chris A's thread, "Corner horn acoustics" on this forum].  PWK recommended putting all speakers in a corner.   Some would disagree, but putting pads on the wall as Chris recommended may help reduce side wall mid/treble reflections that they object to.  Also, putting a throw rug on the floor in front of each Belle where the tweeter sound would bounce off the floor might be a good idea.  Scattering absorbing pads and diffusing surfaces around the room might make your Belles sound even better, but not necessarily.   Resist dealers who want you to buy many, many pads.  Don't put too much absorption into the room!

 

Good luck!  You have a pair of the clearest sounding, most articulate speakers, IMO.

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1 hour ago, garyrc said:

 

Didn't PWK write a paper or DFH on making electrically appropriate capacitors out of whiskey bottles and other junk (to make a point)?  True, there may be differences in lifespan between caps, and for all I know, real audible differences even when new, but those with the background may have a variety of opinions. 

 

1 hour ago, moray james said:

Gary: you have lost me. I do not understand what it is that you are trying to say or not say. Previous post jimjimbo makes a comment and a suggestion, he first qualifies that people have different opinions about capacitors then tells of his recent experience with Clarity Caps suggesting that they are a nice step up  to Dayton caps which are a common and popular inexpensive cap to upgrade with for those on a budget.

   If you insist upon jumping on people who make such comments because you do not agree with them then pretty soon they will stop commenting then not long after that they will stop coming back. You made you point, you do not hear a difference or do not feel the difference is of value, I don't know and it does not matter. It's not your job to save folks from making bad capacitor choices and it just comes off like after the fact back seat driving.

 

1 hour ago, jimjimbo said:

I agree Moray,  I don’t understand either.

 

I didn't mean to "jump on people who make such comments."   In a way, I was agreeing with jimjimbo that "everyone has opinions on capacitors," and that these opinions range to those who think that the type of cap is no big deal, like PWK, at least at the time he wrote the "whisky bottle" article, with his usual sense of humor.  I also acknowledged that not only might there be longevity issues, but there may be "real audible differences even when new."  I used the phrase "for all I know," to indicate that I did not have strong opinions about caps.  My main purpose was to underscore that there is a wide range of opinion, one end of the continuum being exemplified by PWK's humorous paper.  

 

Since becoming more resistive with age seems to be something frequently written about, I would certainly replace the caps if I were the OP, especially since the OPs Belles are so old.

 

I apologize if I wasn't writing up to capacity; perhaps I'm getting more resistive with age.

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Nice looking - are they to be the same values as the original, or is there a tweak in those?



Thanks Drew...they are identical to the originals. I didn't want to tear my original crossovers apart so I just bought new crossovers. It's part of the speaker's history so wanted to keep them original even if I don't use them.


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All these Belle Klipsch speakers and the Luxman and McIntosh equipment look really nice. It is good to read everyone's thoughts on their audio adventures, and experiences with different components and parts.

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I had a Luxman L580 integrated amp for several years.  As I said in a previous post, it was the best sounding solid state I ever had in my home (beating NAD, Yahama, Marantz) and was used with Klipschorns, which have the same drivers as the Belle (but the Belle has a shorter mid horn and, naturally, a shorter bass horn).   The Luxman also had the most useful set of tone controls I've seen (a choice of 3 turnover frequencies and slopes for each tone control, plus a "bass boost" switch at 70 and 140 Hz, plus some filters.  It had 80 "true" watts per channel (RMS, both channels operating), more than enough for a Belle.   I now have a Belle center channel (between flanking Khorns), and it sounds beautiful; it is powered by an NAD 150 w.p.c. power amp.
 
I agree with those who have advocated working on the room, speaker positions, and main listening position first.  They are big variables.  You will hear many claiming that the Belle only goes down smoothly to about 80 or 90 Hz.  A lot of this depends on room position & listener position.  My Belle has a little peak at 60 Hz, and it's  -3 dB point is about 40 Hz, in its current position.  If it looks possible in your room, try putting each Belle in a corner.  That normally would increase the bass, and be equivalent of multiplying your amp power by 4 (i.e., 6 dB) in the bass, compared to placing them out in the room a few feet.  The Belles should be toe'd in so the tweeters are aimed at your ears.  Corner placement, while it  increases the bass, requires some careful handling.  If you do try them in corners, you should act to reduce any midrange or treble reflection from the now nearby side walls.  Put some absorption on the side walls starting from where a stick pressed flat across the front of the midrange and treble horns, parallel to the floor, would touch the side walls and continue the absorption for 2 feet farther out into the room, along the walls.  This is the advice given by Chris A for corner horns.  Even though you don't have corner horns, it is good advice if speakers are in the corners [see Chris A's thread, "Corner horn acoustics" on this forum].  PWK recommended putting all speakers in a corner.   Some would disagree, but putting pads on the wall as Chris recommended may help reduce side wall mid/treble reflections that they object to.  Also, putting a throw rug on the floor in front of each Belle where the tweeter sound would bounce off the floor might be a good idea.  Scattering absorbing pads and diffusing surfaces around the room might make your Belles sound even better, but not necessarily.   Resist dealers who want you to buy many, many pads.  Don't put too much absorption into the room!
 
Good luck!  You have a pair of the clearest sounding, most articulate speakers, IMO.


Thank you very much for sharing. Very very informative & informative posts are always appreciated. I'll definitely make use of this information during final placement/tweaking.

It's going to be a while..but I'll post some pictures when room + placement has been worked out. I'm on work assignment in Louisville...been here almost 6 months already so my listening sessions/audio room work have been brief unfortunately.


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