willland Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 22 minutes ago, wvu80 said: If you compared another AVR brand at the same price point which advertises with 2 channels driven against the Onk "1 Channel Driven" the Onk looks like it has more power. It doesn't. I really don't have issues with this if the 20 to 20 at 8ohms with 2 channels driven spec is also stated. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 1 minute ago, willland said: I really don't have issues with this if the 20 to 20 at 8 ohms with 2 channels driven spec is also stated. -Bill I know what you mean Bill and lately I've seen the distributors doing a better job of advertising ALL the channels-driven specs. They used to advertise in their headlines "200 watts per channel..." or whatever then the fine print was "1 channel driven." I felt it took advantage of first-time AVR buyers who may not have understood the specs they were looking at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 1 minute ago, wvu80 said: I felt it took advantage of first-time AVR buyers who may not have understood the specs they were looking at. Well, to be honest there is a lot of confusion out there including realizing that one will never run their system with all channels being driven to the max and that some folks assume the mfg specs are only 2 channels being driven.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akdave Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Nothing to add other than welcome biglion and it's great to see everyone continually come alongside newer members to help out. I tip my cap gentleman! Keep asking questions biglion - even if you think they're "stupid". Get em answered now and you'll save yourself a lot of aggravation later! Good luck! That's a sweet setup! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted September 6, 2017 Moderators Share Posted September 6, 2017 7 hours ago, akdave said: Keep asking questions biglion - even if you think they're "stupid". Get em answered now and you'll save yourself a lot of aggravation later! I agree...we are glad to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 On 9/3/2017 at 5:55 AM, wvu80 said: @willland ^^^ is correct. I added the warning about 2-channel because you will want to compare AVR power apples-to-apples. THE PROBLEM is these days manufacturers seem to mis-lead consumers by publishing power with ONE channel driven, which at first glance will make an AVR look more powerful then it really is. Nobody runs a multi-channel setup on ONE channel! Onkyo is not the only one who does this, but I am an Onkyo fanboy and it aggravates me they would do this. Check out the specs on this Onk AVR: https://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-RZ810-7-2-Channel-Network-Receiver/dp/B01ETUV4I8/ref=sr_1_3?m=A2L77EE7U53NWQ&s=warehouse-deals&ie=UTF8&qid=1504442695&sr=8-3&keywords=onkyo+receiver This ad says this AVR puts out 200 watts per channel, a really high number for an AVR. But look closer, with 2 channels driven it is actually 130 wpc. If you compared another AVR brand at the same price point which advertises with 2 channels driven against the Onk "1 Channel Driven" the Onk looks like it has more power. It doesn't. There are other numbers and technical terms we could discuss but just be aware to compare using the 2 channels driven spec. AND they kicked it down to 6 Ohms, too! Anything to get a higher "rated power" to advertise! We are told that amplifier manufacturers were once scrupulously honest, but some of the particulars have been lost in the mists of antiquity. Here is the story I heard when but a lad. When all amplifiers for the home were monaural (the 1950s) nearly all amplifier manufacturers would rate their amplifiers in terms of RMS power. Even though people who know a lot more about it than do I tell me that "RMS power" was a misnomer (I think one would more properly apply the term RMS -- root mean square -- to voltage than wattage, but I could be wrong), this was the standard used. This was not the power at which the amplifier clipped. The bench tech would turn the amp up until the waveform was just barely flat on the top (i.e., clipped) , then turn it down until it was just barely not clipped, then run a 20 to 20,000 Hz sweep at that level. With luck there would be no clipping at that level over the entire frequency range. The tech would then take .707 of that amplitude. That was the RMS rating. For example my 2 channel (stereo) NAD power amps are rated at 150 watts per channel. My dealer ran a 20 to 20K sweep just under clipping level and got 170 watts per channel, all channels operating (there are only 2 channels in this amp). Some manufacturers would rate those amps at 170 w.p.c. NAD rated them at 150 w.p.c. Their RMS rating would be .707 x 170 or 120 w.p.c. Things got worse when many channel AVRs came out. Manufacturers would rate them with one or two channels operating, when the customer would be running 5, 7, or more channels at home. I think I read that the typical 5 channel amp can put out about 80% of its 2 channel rating, when it is running with all channels operating. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 1 minute ago, garyrc said: Things got worse when many channel AVRs came out. Manufacturers would rate them with one or two channels operating, when the customer would be running 5, 7, or more channels at home. I think I read that the typical 5 channel amp can put out about 80% of its 2 channel rating. This. ^^^ Whole post, good analysis Gary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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