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Eulypion

Getting Back to Klipsch Heritage, but Which Ones?

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I know that conventional wisdom asks for big room for Khorns but my current basement den is certainly smaller than the living rooms I used them before - and I am totally sure that they never sounded as good before - and they always had propper corner placement. Otherwise the pros and cons of both alternatives have been mentioned already.

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On 9/9/2017 at 11:40 AM, wvu80 said:

 

I would also point out the Khorn doesn't just have "bass" it has accurate bass.  Most subs are a little sloppy with an upright bass, but the Khorn is super accurate in playing acoustic string bass vs the very different sound of an electric bass guitar.

 

Indeed. 

 

You like the Khorns better than when you first had them, right?

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On 9/9/2017 at 11:06 AM, Eulypion said:

Well I my mind was made up. I was going to get the La Scala speakers. Then last night I read the forum on "La Scala: King of imaging in the Heritage Line?" and a bunch of other subjects. It seems that most of y'all own the Khorns and feel they are the best of all. Many of you guys seem to feel the La Scala are a little lacking in the bass response and I like a good bass response.   So maybe I should save a little longer and get the Khorns??? 

 

Is a room that is 19 x 15  w/ 8 ft ceiling big enough for khorns?  I do have two good corners I could put them in. I would hate to go 85% of the way to a dream I had since I was about 14 yrs old (to own khorns & a Marantz receiver w/ the silver face & blue lights - only now I want a tube amp) and then stop short and regret it.  I thought the La Scala would sound very close to the thorns with the added benefit of placement freedom (to a certain degree).  What to do? 

 

The 19 x 15 part is O.K..  Sometimes 8 ft, or lower, ceilings are a problem with K horns, but, if this should happen (it might not), some attractive absorption on a small area of the ceiling [where the reflection of each tweeter would be, as seen from your listening chair(S)] would probably fix it.  An area rug where there is a similar reflection off the floor would help.  Klipsch recommends ceilings at least 8.5 feet high for Khorns.  While we were building our music room/HT, we had our Khorns in room smaller than yours, with 8 foot ceilings, and they sounded fine!

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12 minutes ago, garyrc said:

You like the Khorns better than when you first had them, right?

Yes!

 

I have such a goofy living room with a hallway running through the front soundstage and a semi-trapezoidal right-side wall it's a wonder anything sounds good.  Putting the Khorns into my equally goofy "corners" (one is a glass wall, the other is my front door) I just could not integrate the Korns into any kind of 5.1 configuration that sounded right.

 

Due to spouse's request I put them on the market.  With someone coming over to look at them I hooked them up in a completely wrong setup, no corners, almost middle of the room, too close together and too close to the MLP and all of the sudden they sound amazing.

 

I am already having Seller's Remorse.  :(

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7 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

Yes!

 

I have such a goofy living room with a hallway running through the front soundstage and a semi-trapezoidal right-side wall it's a wonder anything sounds good.  Putting the Khorns into my equally goofy "corners" (one is a glass wall, the other is my front door) I just could not integrate the Korns into any kind of 5.1 configuration that sounded right.

 

Due to spouse's request I put them on the market.  With someone coming over to look at them I hooked them up in a completely wrong setup, no corners, almost middle of the room, too close together and too close to the MLP and all of the sudden they sound amazing.

 

I am already having Seller's Remorse.  :(

 

Someday get another pair, or maybe a pair of Jubs, and build a room especially for them!  That's what we did (for Khorns) and we've been enjoying them in their new room for several years now.  It only took us 30 years to get around to it, and 3 years to do it.  Both music and movies sound great.  Originally, we were going to be "pure" and play 2 channel music in 2 channels, but now we try every music disk 2 ways: 2 ch and PL II, which [additionally] sends derived channels through our Heresy II surrounds and our modified Belle Klipsch center.  The multichannel effect is wonderful with most discs, and, of course,  so is SACD classical with 5.0 or 5.1 "real" channels.   A funny thing happens: the clean bass attack of both the Khorns and [fully horn loaded] the clean Belle center predominate (partly because those three are usually louder) and they seem to hide the fact that the surrounds don't have as accurate bass.  We bring in the subwoofer as low as possible, to let the Khorns shine, but the sub does provide "basement" -- below 40 Hz -- on some music and most movies.  When we turn off the sub on some music, we hardly miss it.  The Khorns go down to 30 Hz in this room, fairly smoothly, and extend, although attenuated, to below 24 Hz, according to REW and a calibrated mic.  Someday, we may build a horn loaded sub -- cleanliness is next to ... [abiding by forum rules]. 

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On 9/8/2017 at 6:54 AM, pzannucci said:

Good suggestion if going with the La Scala.  If you desire deeper bass, get a set of Cornwalls.

I never heard Cornwall for an extended period. My Chorus IIs seemed to have as deep of bass and more articulate. LaScalas, Belle's and K Horns for the best mid-range realism.

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2 hours ago, cincymat said:

Got corners? Khorns.

 

No? La Scalas.

 

It's that simple. ;)

 

Mark

If you don't need deep bass, then the La Scalas may do.  You may also tire of the treble.

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7 minutes ago, pzannucci said:

If you don't need deep bass, then the La Scalas may do.  You may also tire of the treble.

Everything is a compromise. Haven't experienced Cornwalls yet. Next purchase.  

 

Mark

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Absolutely... just make sure you make the right compromises for you.  Some of that low frequency content makes music much more real so I don't like to loose it, not saying Cornwall is a very extended speaker but.

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21 hours ago, cincymat said:

Got corners? Khorns.

 

No? La Scalas.

 

It's that simple. ;)

 

Mark

 

Got corners? Khorns or Jubes.

 

No? Artificial Corners (braced 3/4 ply + a nice veneer -- see plans in Dope from Hope) with Khorns or Jubs.

 

The extra bass of the Khorn or Jube helps balance the generous mid and treble.  On paper, and probably in most rooms, the Jub is better.

 

Some people with fully horn loaded speakers hew to the Harmon research and EQ their speakers to a smooth, but inclined, frequency response curve, with the lowest bass successfully reproduced set to about 9 dB louder than the highest treble.  Fully horn loaded speakers are so efficient that this is possible with most amps; most of the EQ should be accomplished with cut, rather than boost, if possible.  The EQ should stop at the speaker's F3.  This might not work too well with a La Scala, but does work with Khorns, at least in my room.

 

Horn loaded subwoofers are a better match than ordinary ones.  Search this forum and Google for DIY builds

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22 hours ago, cincymat said:

Got corners? Khorns.

 

No? La Scalas.

 

It's that simple. ;)

 

Mark

I vote for Jubilees. They are going on 20 years old and can be used with or without corners. They work like a "Super LaScala" without, and like a Khorn with. Either way, a subwoofer or TWO subs is a great idea.

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La Scala driven with a tube amp? That is exactly what I setup. I had a similar question as yours after hearing a friends La Scalas and decided they were the right choice for my 2 channel setup. I got lucky and found a really nice set within driving range. Here is my setup, and and I can say I am continually blown away by how good this sounds. The imaging, stage, depth is incredible. I added a powered Polk 12" sub (seen in the right corner of the pic) that use speaker level inputs (in parallel with the LS). Crossover is around 70hz, so it is only adding the very lowest bass. I have the gain on the sub at 100%, and it does generally make an improvement but isn't what I'd say is required.  My 2-channel room is far from ideal - rectangular with lots of flat surfaces for reflection, including a bar on one side of the room. My HT setup is in a different room with in-wall speakers so I could not place the LS in there. I vote for the La Scalas in your situation! I have them both toed in a bit, the right speaker is toed in more than the picture shows. The left speaker is in a corner which helps with the bass response.

 

1977 La Scalas with recapped crossovers

Yaqin MS-30L amp, using EL-34Bs

Audio-Technica LP120 turntable (using internal RIAA equalized phono stage)

A cheap Sony DVD/CD player

Aux input for streaming audio

 

2chan setup.jpg

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To anyone reading this post and never having heard a pair of LaScalas it is like talking about kids with someone who doesn't have them.

 

Within the last month the gods of cash flow afforded me the opportunity to acquire a pair of '92 LaScalas. ...My kids' braces can wait... LOL!

 

There is no going back from here.

 

There is no replacement for displacement.

 

The folded horn bass shames anything else.

 

I had evolved from Heresys (1' and 2's) with a sub under each,  to Forte ii's, to Cornwalls (1's and 2's), to CF-3's, to penultimately (for now) Cornscalas. I am sure Khorns will cross my doorstep at some point.

 

When I swapped my Cornscalas for these LaScalas it was the same leap in sound enjoyment I got from each of the other steps.

 

Imaging and detail that has to be heard to be believed.

 

But more so it was the presence in the room that was not possible with any other speaker.

 

At the low levels where Cornwalls excel, these LaScalas drown them out.

 

Make the time to listen to a pair of LaScalas.

 

You deserve it!

 

 

 

 

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On 9/7/2017 at 2:30 PM, avguytx said:

There's a pair of La Scala's on Little Rock, AR craigslist at the moment.  I'd pondered them and have emailed the guy but I really like the dimensions of the Belle better and am going to build a pair soon.  But here's the link if interested.

 

Just a tad under 7 hour drive one way from NO to LR; could be a one day round trip.

 

https://littlerock.craigslist.org/ele/d/klipsch-lascala-pair/6296494986.html

I called the listing party and went to audition the La Scalas. They were beautiful, and I intended on buying them then and there. We got to talking about Belles, and he mentioned he had a single walnut oiled Belle. I bought it as a center to use between my 1967 KCWRs. Thanks to @avguytx for posting the link to the local craigslist.

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I first got the La Scala I commercials. Guy was asking $1100, I offered him $1000 & he took it. I hooked it up to a Mc275 & it sounded great, although it was lacking bass. The main difference between the La Scala I's & La Scala II's is the II's are made with thicker wood which helps the bass. So I put 3/4" plywood on the sides & it helped the bass. I could actually tell the difference while listening to Eminem. I then upgraded to 402 horns for the mid's & high's. I have a horn sub woofer (Danley DTS-10) but haven't hooked it up yet. My system now sounds amazing! But, it's never enough for me so just the other day I ordered Jubilee's. So I'll have jubilee bass bins with 402 horns & my original La Scala's to either put in my bedroom or go for surround sound... So anyway I'd start with La Scala I's & put 3/4 plywood on the sides to help the bass.. I'd say the least expensive way to have a good sounding system. Then if you feel it necessary get a sub... Welcome to the forum...   Bill

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On ‎9‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 1:06 PM, Eulypion said:

Well I my mind was made up. I was going to get the La Scala speakers. Then last night I read the forum on "La Scala: King of imaging in the Heritage Line?" and a bunch of other subjects. It seems that most of y'all own the Khorns and feel they are the best of all. Many of you guys seem to feel the La Scala are a little lacking in the bass response and I like a good bass response.   So maybe I should save a little longer and get the Khorns??? 

 

Is a room that is 19 x 15  w/ 8 ft ceiling big enough for khorns?  I do have two good corners I could put them in. I would hate to go 85% of the way to a dream I had since I was about 14 yrs old (to own khorns & a Marantz receiver w/ the silver face & blue lights - only now I want a tube amp) and then stop short and regret it.  I thought the La Scala would sound very close to the thorns with the added benefit of placement freedom (to a certain degree).  What to do? 

The Klipsch LaScala is arguably the most versatile speaker that Klipsch has ever produced, even though it lacks the extreme bottom-end performance of the Klipschorn, but that can easily be solved with a good subwoofer:

1.  Fist of all, it does NOT REQUIRE a corner like the Klipschorn does, although the LaScala will perform better if corners are available for it.

2.  LaScalas can easily be taken outside for outdoor parties and such and that is where they REALLY SHINE!  Nothing beats a pair of LaScalas outdoors (unless you have an MWM-based system, instead!).

3.  The LaScala is identically voiced to the Klipschorn, with the exception that the K-horns goes down to around 32Hz, whereas the LaScala starts to roll off severely on its bottom-end between 45-60Hz.  Many see no need whatsoever to even go the subwoofer route with LaScalas, unless they are using them as part of a home theater system.

4.  Because the LaScala is FULLY-horn-loaded, just as the Khorn is, it is highly directional.  Because the LaScala needs no corners, then you can be blasting them for an outdoor party, and watch as people in FRONT of them are screaming to carry on a conversation, while those standing BEHIND them are able to carry on a conversation at normal voice levels.

5.  LaScalas were DESIGNED to be used as stage and theater speakers, so that would make them much more ideal for your desire to also use them for PA purposes.

 

So, my suggestion for you would be the LaScalas.  Even if you choose to add a subwoofer to them, the total cost would be much less than a pair of K-horns would cost you, with the added benefit of the versatility of the LaScalas for speaker placement reasons.

 

As for the mid-range issues that some folks feel a need to drop the mid-range back a couple of decibels....that generally has much more to do with the crossover network version the particular LaScalas came with (a few different versions over its lifespan have been used) than anything else...combined with placement and room issues...and, of course, the upstream components being used to feed the LaScalas play a major role in that "issue".

 

One caveat, though, when using LaScalas for PA duty, ESPECIALLY when feeding using a microphone, you will have to find that perfect happy spot for the amp volume control, AND the microphone being used for voice...because with highly efficient speakers like the LaScala, even the distance from mouth to mic makes a huge difference in what comes out of the speakers.  So don't overdo it and end up blowing the tweeter(s) or the woofer by pushing too much power into them when using a mic.  I would opt for low power amp for that usage, and use it only for that usage, while using something else for music playback.

 

There are reasons why so many former and current Klipsch employees end up/ended up with LaScalas in the house and never got the K-horns, besides the issue of availability of corners for the K-horns.  LaScala VERSATILITY is right at the top of that list of reasons.

 

One other thing....even when many finally opt for Klipschorns to replace their LaScalas in use for their PRIMARY listening environment...you will find that very many of these people KEEP their LaScalas in another system within their home or for other uses, simply due to the versatility of the LaScala.

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On 9/11/2017 at 7:06 PM, Audio Flynn said:

I never heard Cornwall for an extended period. My Chorus IIs seemed to have as deep of bass and more articulate. LaScalas, Belle's and K Horns for the best mid-range realism.

+1. In my experience the Chorus II has better, more controlled bass than the Cornwall I (haven't heard II or III). The Cornwall started to sound floppy at higher volumes. Mids and highs were very similar between the two.

If you don't have space for the KHorn or La Scala, go with Chorus IIs. Can be had for $600-900, depending on region of the country.

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On 2017-09-10 at 4:54 PM, wvu80 said:

Yes!

 

I have such a goofy living room with a hallway running through the front soundstage and a semi-trapezoidal right-side wall it's a wonder anything sounds good.  Putting the Khorns into my equally goofy "corners" (one is a glass wall, the other is my front door) I just could not integrate the Korns into any kind of 5.1 configuration that sounded right.

 

Due to spouse's request I put them on the market.  With someone coming over to look at them I hooked them up in a completely wrong setup, no corners, almost middle of the room, too close together and too close to the MLP and all of the sudden they sound amazing.

 

I am already having Seller's Remorse.  :(

That is a real shame. Have you developed a plan for a replacement that would work better with your room?

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1 hour ago, YK Thom said:

That is a real shame. Have you developed a plan for a replacement that would work better with your room?

I went with the most WAF friendly Klipsch speakers I could find.  I still have some minor cleanup to do in terms of placement but I recently picked up some RF-83, RC-64 and RS-62.  They blend into a very attractive front end with the grills attached.

 

I also have a DIY Reference 15 sealed sub in unfinished MDF I really like that needs to be painted black.  I was going to use them to try my hand with veneering but I'm just going to pain them and be done with it.  The Klipsch sub is a RW 12d which I have already removed from the rotation thanks to forum advice.

 

For your viewing pleasure here they are naked.  B)

 

 

IMG_0037.JPG

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