Jump to content

Phono Preamp? Tube or SS


JohnJ

Recommended Posts

My 30 year stereo rebuild was completed with the new Fortes a couple months ago. Having had an excellent sounding turntable setup for decades to it not allowing me to even play an lp for a couple years. Whether or not my tt choice was great, I've improved it with a mid grade micro line cartridge. It can play new lps nicely, the timbre is noticeably different from digital input playback to my record playback. The cart is broken in now, and it is also somewhat forgiving of my vinyl with high miles. OK attribute that to the micro-line stylus plus not using a top of the line cart.  

My "mid grade" cart was less than $200, not in the Sumiko Blackbird tax bracket! It's an AT440MLb on an AudioTechnica AT-LP5 turntable, an updated AT-LP120 if you will.

My previous turntable was an direct drive Yamaha P-520, it was so nice all those years to not have to fiddle with belts that I didn't consider belt driven for the new tt. Had a bad experience for several years prior with a finicky belt-driven tt.

You might scoff at this now, I can comprehend that, hope you can disengage from that for this query. 

What I found that I liked specs wise in a belt driven audiophile turntable was over $1000. To get the quality I obtained for $350 in 1990 I'd have to pay too much. One I briefly contemplated was the beautiful Pro-Ject Classic Sub Chassis.

Anyhow, current tt has 0 audible (like the last one) rumble, very good plinth & stabilization, clear detail with good bass. The s/n ratio is just not that great from the built in tt preamp. This tt will completely take the built in amp out of the signal path when I switch it off unlike the AT-LP120 did.

 

Looking for opinions on a separate phono pre-amp. I could for less than $100 get a basic one that would improve the s/n and sound quality I have now. Double that and get MM-MC switchable, lower thd, better RIAA accuracy, separation and crosstalk, switchable subsonic filter.

This: https://www.crutchfield.com/p_252TBBXDSB/Pro-Ject-Tube-Box-DS.html?tp=48772 I think would improve the analog quality, $400 is a bit high even though it's a deal right now. Adjustable gain?

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=BLVP130 is more reasonable

https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/cambcp2bla/cambridge-audio-cp2-phono-preamp-for-moving-magnet-moving-coil-cartridges-black/1.html#!specifications is better on my current fy2017 budget deficit.

 

Could the tube amplified pre-amps above justify the higher price compared to the other listed on a good solid state stereo rig?

Without a tube driven system, if I invested in one of the tube preamps would my lps sound that much better?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JohnJ said:

You might scoff at this now, I can comprehend that, hope you can disengage from that for this query. 

 

I detect nothing of the sort. I have a Pioneer and a Technics, both direct drive and they are fine. I'm low rent, works for ME. At present not cart on the Technics, but the other has a cheap Audio Technica.

 

I was using a JMA BBX tube pre that sounded fine, but at pesent use a no longer available Audio Technica phono pre that cost me less than $50. It's extremely quiet and for the life of me, sounds as good as the BBX.

 

You might look here as well:

 

http://www.needledoctor.com/

 

Bruce

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you Bruce, hope you don't have too big of a mess outside to clean up today!

 

It was just that everything I've always heard and read states that direct-drive is incompatible with audiophile. My past experience blows that out of the water!

But thinking I could make the record playing side of my ss rig sound "more" analog was my reasoning of thinking of tube phono pre-amplification. Bellari is the only inexpensive one I've seen so far but that Pro-Ject Tube DS that is their old version might do the trick. Could very well be overkill also!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@JohnJ

In my personal opinion ( and I would personally like to own one of these myself ) the external phono stage I would choose is 

iFi iphono2

 

https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-iphono2/

 

If you want a tube sound they have an external tube buffer module as well 

 

https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-itube2/

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello group!    John, my Cambridge Audio phono stage is up for grabs if you want to take a chance on a solid stage stand alone of good quality....    Since my new Marantz sr6011 has a built in phono stage, I no longer need this one....

 

PMail me and I will get you a price and we can talk arrangements.....

 

All for now...................see you over in RTM or Paul's vinyl forum.....   :)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Tigerman said:

Hello group!    John, my Cambridge Audio phono stage is up for grabs if you want to take a chance on a solid stage stand alone of good quality....    Since my new Marantz sr6011 has a built in phono stage, I no longer need this one....

 

PMail me and I will get you a price and we can talk arrangements.... :)

sent!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Close to figuring it out, possibly further from it. Looking at either the iFi Micro iTube2 or the Pro-Ject Tube box DS. That iTube2 is radical, seems it would work either with or without my built it preamp being inline.

There, I admit it. I'm just fascinated by this Thorsten Loesch and what he's doing. Shout out to you @Full Range!

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, JohnJ said:

Close to figuring it out, possibly further from it. Looking at either the iFi Micro iTube2 or the Pro-Ject Tube box DS. That iTube2 is radical, seems it would work either with or without my built it preamp being inline.

There, I admit it. I'm just fascinated by this Thorsten Loesch and what he's doing. Shout out to you @Full Range!

 

When I finish my buying spree of records to complete my collection 

I will budget in and purchase an iFi iphono2 for myself 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hope that works out well for you. Let us know how it turns out when you've got it running!

So I've drooled over both those iFi solutions you provided above, the iPhono2 is a little too much for me to spend right now, still set on doing something to finish off my new system. Darn appliances set me back over $3k the last couple of months. iTube2 would seem to be the answer but could not get a straight answer from the folks there to my questions. The iTube2 would only amplify & modify what the not so great built in preamp on the tt puts out.

Whetting down my options, I'll sleep on it and do the deed in the morning.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pulled the trigger on a Cambridge CP2 earlier. It came down to need vs want, and cost half as much as I was thinking of. Should be an improvement in the lp sound that I have been enjoying. If it's not copasetic I'll start from the record player out next time there's an eclipse and the washer, dryer, dishwasher and oven are paid off!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, JohnJ said:

Pulled the trigger on a Cambridge CP2 earlier. It came down to need vs want, and cost half as much as I was thinking of. Should be an improvement in the lp sound that I have been enjoying. If it's not copasetic I'll start from the record player out next time there's an eclipse and the washer, dryer, dishwasher and oven are paid off!

 

Is that the unit offered from the gentleman also knows as Tigerman 

Keep us in the loop with your impressions 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Full Range said:

 

Is that the unit offered from the gentleman also knows as Tigerman 

Keep us in the loop with your impressions 

Very close specs, but no.

He had an MM specific model for a great price though.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Cambridge CP2 was on the porch this morn when I took the mail out. Solid little chunk of dark aluminum, I've listened to several tunes on different records.

The mid and high frequencies are more detailed and "out front" in the sound imaging I hear. Nice but "dry" sounding. It removes the bass from records I've played the past week that are fresh in my mind. I can hear and feel a substantial difference in that respect.

So... the preamp that's internal in my Audio Technica AT LP-5 tt can make more full, rich and impactful bass than this external preamp. It's lacking the detail and clarity that the CP2 provides. Time for plan B.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So this is trying to make my records sound like they used to on my old turntable at a minimum. Current tt has pretty good sound, stock cart had a not all there half held back bass response and it lacked the timbre ( my word of the week) in vocals and high frequencies. Upgraded the cart and fixed that.  Played tunes from 70s, 80s and 90s decent lps just now and they lost the bass that they had prior to the CP2. Plan B will be here tomorrow:  https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-itube2/  

I'll stick with the tt internal preamp until or unless another aspect regresses with "B"

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Full Range said:

Anything new will sound different but the sound signature you like most - will stand out in your listening appraisal 

Always give your ears time to change to the new environment and always do any critical tests after 30 minutes warm up time 

 

 

I understand but with everything hooked up right, I did a double take on the ground wire. That unit could have been faulty.

 

No regrets though this iTube2 is fantastic! I think using it as a preamp is only good for headphone amplifiers, didn't work here either. As a buffer it functions with my tt internal preamp and it does not impede the sound at all, heck I set it at +9db. My lps have almost as much volume & impact now as digital does from my rig. Previously I had to turn it down to go to digital or turn it up when starting a record to keep the volume steady. 

SET is almost a neutral or flat rich sound, Classic tube is more richness with the vocals, sax, guitar, horns pushed out further into the room... in your face!, Push Pull sounds a little less in your face might be good to keep it on this one. The bass boost works but it's switched out, I like the tight, clean full Forte III bass sound, 3D have not tried that..... not interested yet. Maybe with some Yes.

Billy Joels "The Stranger", Queens "Spread your Wings" WOW! the texture in Freddys raspy voice, Marshall Tuckers "Running Like the Wind" side one. Sounds alive and vibrant like vinyl can when it's done right. Switched from classic to push pull and back several times.

 

I can't let this thing go, this is one neat trick!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...