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91RS

Theory Behind the Twin Surround Speakers?

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91RS    0

I was curious what the theory is behind the twin surround speakers like the RP-240S and RP-250S.  I currently have my system only running the side surround speakers because my living room is narrow and the couch is against the back wall and there isn't room for the rear surround speakers (I'm thinking about getting some ceiling speakers at some point since my new receiver supports Atmos).  Since the couch is against the wall both of my current surround speakers are in the upper rear corners of the room pointing towards the listening position.  I feel like by the way the twin speakers look that they are best used as rear surround speakers and not as side surround speakers where, in my case, the sound will bounce off the wall on one side and be pointed towards the middle of the living room on the other side.  Am I correct in thinking that wouldn't be ideal for my situation?  I was thinking I would be better off using the RP-140SA in place of my current surrounds (the web site says they can be wall hung as well as used for elevation speakers on top of the fronts) as it will point right at the listening position.

Edited by 91RS

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Youthman    3444

Can you post photos of your room or sketch a layout of your room?

 

If you look at the photo below, you can see the side surrounds are suggested to be between 90 degrees (straight beside your listening position) up to 110 degrees behind the LP. 

 

image

 

 

If you look at my surround setup below, you can see that I have (4) RS-62ii.  The "twin surrounds" you referred to by Klipsch as "Wide Dispersion".  The idea is to spread out the sound so that it isn't as noticeable where the sound comes from and provides an enveloping sound.  My rear seats and rear surrounds are not ideal because the rear seats are close to the back wall, the surround backs are too high (due to the entrance door).  My side surrounds are great....I'm not sure how much I hear the surround backs.  Not sure if this is because of placement or because of lack of 7.1 content.  Some guys prefer direct radiating speakers (like a bookshelf speaker) for the surround backs instead of wide dispersion.  This is merely a matter of taste.

 

Home-Theater-Rear-Wall.jpg

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91RS    0

I don't have a good picture handy but my side surrounds are in upper the corners of the room which puts them 90* or maybe just a hair further back when sitting on the couch that's against the wall. They're just under 10' high pointing at the couch. The current speakers are little Polk satellites of that makes any difference. I've upgraded my fronts to the RF-82 and my center is an R-25C that I'd like to upgrade to an RC-62. Surrounds will be done after that. 

 

I do have limitations since this is a living room and not a dedicated theater room and I guess that's where this question came from.  It makes sense about the design of the speaker not being able to tell where the sound is coming from but would having it in a corner ruin that effect? I also don't think I would be able to get them as far down on the wall as you have them. I could lower them maybe 2' but I'm sure the wife would prefer they stay in the corners. 

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RoboKlipsch    365

Placement is the most important element.  10 feet up can work but is far from ideal.

 

Bipolar surrounds still point directly at a particular spot.  They help diffuse the sound around the side and back of the roomto create a very enveloping experience....surround sound

 

Side surrounds are spec d to be bipolar or mono....back surrounds are spec d to mono.  But any work its really a preference.  

 

Placement makes the difference.  Move them down try it and hear th3 difference.  It is critical 

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RoboKlipsch    365

Imagine a wave coming from each woofer in that bipole aurround....they cross each other and become loudest directly ahead by way of combining....and out to the sides they leave a very diffuse sound area.  Which to use is preference.  Given the chance i would recommend sides be bipoles where possible.  Corners are not ideal placement.

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91RS    0
3 hours ago, RoboKlipsch said:

Placement is the most important element.  10 feet up can work but is far from ideal.

 

Bipolar surrounds still point directly at a particular spot.  They help diffuse the sound around the side and back of the roomto create a very enveloping experience....surround sound

 

Side surrounds are spec d to be bipolar or mono....back surrounds are spec d to mono.  But any work its really a preference.  

 

Placement makes the difference.  Move them down try it and hear th3 difference.  It is critical 

 

I understand placement is everything.  That's why I was thinking using the RP-140SA as my side surrounds because they can be wall mounted and then would be pointing towards the listening position.  Like I said though, this is my living room and I also have to do this where the wife approves (that's why I'm running 5.1 instead of 7.1, I have the speakers from the Polk package I was originally using but she didn't want them over the couch because they're too noticeable).  There is also a window right below the right side surround speaker so I can't physically go any lower than the top of the curtain.  If I could have them at ear height then I'd just have kept the R-26F's I upgraded or go with bookshelf speakers and be done.

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91RS    0
3 hours ago, RoboKlipsch said:

Imagine a wave coming from each woofer in that bipole aurround....they cross each other and become loudest directly ahead by way of combining....and out to the sides they leave a very diffuse sound area.  Which to use is preference.  Given the chance i would recommend sides be bipoles where possible.  Corners are not ideal placement.

 

That's the reason for this thread, I figured putting the bipole speaker in a corner would not be ideal.  Which is another reason I was thinking the RP-140SA's would be better for me because they can go in a corner and be fine from the looks of it.  If I move the speaker forward it will be in front of the listening position rather than the 90*-110*.  I can't do anything about that.  The couch can't be moved away from the wall or there won't be much room to walk through the living room.  My living room is a rectangle and the TV and couch are on the long walls because I didn't want the TV over the fireplace, so they're about 10' apart (I haven't measured). 

 

Though with the bipole speaker it may not necessarily be the end of the world if the speaker was a little forward of the listening position?  I could possibly move them down from the corner 2' and forward 2' as long as I can get the wiring there on the right side above the window since that's an outside wall it was rather difficult to get over there.  But I have a feeling that's probably still too high to be ideal and the wife may not approve of them being there.

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Kman    39

I also have RS62II's for rear and side surrounds. They seem to work fine. Noticeably better in the back row ( which I frequently sit too to view movies). I think the front row may be a bit too far away to get the full benefit of them. I have a new pair of RB61II's I was going to test out for the rear surrounds to see if I notice a difference. Also depends on the movie- some have more activity in the soundtrack for rears than others. 

J4.jpg

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91RS    0

Y'all definitely have nice setups! I definitely can't put the surrounds that far down so the bipoles may just not be right for me in this situation. And that just is what it is and I'm glad I asked. 

 

I almost feel feel like for the money the RP-140SA's cost, I might be better off going with something like the RB-61. They're quite a bit larger but I might be able to build a wood shelf/cabinet that would angle them towards the listening position that could be painted trim or wall color to make them blend in so they'd pass the wife test. 

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RoboKlipsch    365

rp140as are not surrounds and are not right for the purpose

 

you can wall mount any klipsch bipole or bookshelf

bipoles use a keyhole mount.....i recommend a snaptoggle to mount those

bookshelves use wall mounts

 

i get that appearance wise the 140s look like mini surrounds but they are too mini for this purpose.

 

corners are poor because a lot happens in a corner....room modes....wall loading....dispersion from a corner is not how they are meant to be used.  it can be done and be good but is far less likely in most rooms

 

5.1surrounds go on side of mlp or just behind....too far behind it loses some of the direct sound

forward of mlp is fine actually and works well.  my advice is above ear level so all seats hear them

 

 

 

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RoboKlipsch    365
18 hours ago, Kman said:

I also have RS62II's for rear and side surrounds. They seem to work fine. Noticeably better in the back row ( which I frequently sit too to view movies). I think the front row may be a bit too far away to get the full benefit of them. I have a new pair of RB61II's I was going to test out for the rear surrounds to see if I notice a difference. Also depends on the movie- some have more activity in the soundtrack for rears than others. 

J4.jpg

beautiful setup!

 

i would venture a guess that the calibration is such that the fronts are a bit strong in the front row vs row 2....u could try dropping the levels 1 or 2db on the lcr it might balance the front better.  very impressive design did u build yourself?

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91RS    0

After more thought today, I think I'm going to try and pick up some RB-61's for the side surrounds and hopefully I can build a shelf or enclosure around them that can be painted wall color so the wife will approve.  Since the RB's have front firing ports, it shouldn't be an issue to enclose the whole thing except the front.  I may even be able to get her to let me mount them on the back wall and maybe I can even move them lower down to a better height if I enclose them.  Hopefully Fry's put the RC-62 on sale again soon and I can pick one of those up for the center and then I'll be done!

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Kman    39
5 hours ago, RoboKlipsch said:

beautiful setup!

 

i would venture a guess that the calibration is such that the fronts are a bit strong in the front row vs row 2....u could try dropping the levels 1 or 2db on the lcr it might balance the front better.  very impressive design did u build yourself?

thanks. yes it is a bit louder- but not too bad. I lower the seats up front a bit if I am sitting the back. Whenever I went to a movie theater I always sat in the back row- I think size wise on the screen it reminds me of that- plus as I stated the rear surrounds are a bit more prominent- so I enjoy sitting in both rows. I designed it best I could , sure there are things I would do a bit different- but overall I am happy with it. I helped some with the build , like painting, etc. Recently I did a pretty extensive home addition and my friend is the builder so he gets most of the credit for the build. 

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RoboKlipsch    365
4 hours ago, 91RS said:

After more thought today, I think I'm going to try and pick up some RB-61's for the side surrounds and hopefully I can build a shelf or enclosure around them that can be painted wall color so the wife will approve.  Since the RB's have front firing ports, it shouldn't be an issue to enclose the whole thing except the front.  I may even be able to get her to let me mount them on the back wall and maybe I can even move them lower down to a better height if I enclose them.  Hopefully Fry's put the RC-62 on sale again soon and I can pick one of those up for the center and then I'll be done!

How about in wall speakers?

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91RS    0

I thought about that but then because of the window on the one wall that is 90* to the couch they would have to be 9' high and then wouldn't be pointing at the listening position.  Also, because of the way the roof comes down on that outside wall, I'm not sure I could get the auger bit at the right angle to drill through the header to drop the wire over the window.

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On 9/13/2017 at 6:17 PM, Kman said:

I also have RS62II's for rear and side surrounds. They seem to work fine. Noticeably better in the back row ( which I frequently sit too to view movies). I think the front row may be a bit too far away to get the full benefit of them. I have a new pair of RB61II's I was going to test out for the rear surrounds to see if I notice a difference. Also depends on the movie- some have more activity in the soundtrack for rears than others. 

J4.jpg

What speakers do you have for the front? I'm guessing RF-7IIs? 

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Kman    39
9 hours ago, Boilermaker86 said:

What speakers do you have for the front? I'm guessing RF-7IIs? 

Actually I have Rp280's with 450C. I like them and they sound great with everything. I figured they will hold me over until the RF7III's come out and I can move onto them if I want to someday.    I already purchased the surrounds before the room was done and my original intent was to get the RF7's but I got a good deal on these and I was spending so much on other stuff at the time for the house I went in a different direction..for now. 

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Kman    39
On 9/14/2017 at 4:18 PM, 91RS said:

After more thought today, I think I'm going to try and pick up some RB-61's for the side surrounds and hopefully I can build a shelf or enclosure around them that can be painted wall color so the wife will approve.  Since the RB's have front firing ports, it shouldn't be an issue to enclose the whole thing except the front.  I may even be able to get her to let me mount them on the back wall and maybe I can even move them lower down to a better height if I enclose them.  Hopefully Fry's put the RC-62 on sale again soon and I can pick one of those up for the center and then I'll be done!

I have the RC62II in another set up , its a great center speaker. 

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1 hour ago, Kman said:

I have the RC62II in another set up , its a great center speaker. 

It's been onsale every month since February....you'll get one 

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91RS    0

It's on sale this week but only for $274. Not nearly as good a deal as the $130 or $150 sale.  

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