Paducah Home Theater Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, mikebse2a3 said: What ended up being the reason for this...? No idea. Different algorithm somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Just now, MetropolisLakeOutfitters said: No idea. Different algorithm somehow. Strange...... A low shelve filter programed with the same parameters should output the same results. I have seen cases where a filter was placed in the wrong location like on the input channel when it should have been in the output channel causing unexpected results because it affected both LF and HF when located in the input channel versus only the HF when located in the output channel as it should have been. Maybe @Chief bonehead can tell us what was the cause? miketn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 There is one parameter difference between the EV and Xilica low shelf filters: dB/octave vs. bandwidth. That's the main reason why it's nice to have an anechoic chamber check out of that one setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 4 hours ago, Chris A said: There is one parameter difference between the EV and Xilica low shelf filters: dB/octave vs. bandwidth. That's the main reason why it's nice to have an anechoic chamber check out of that one setting. Interesting ... note Jim Hilson comments on this subject. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Roy's low shelf filter bandwidth is ~2 octaves in his latest release using the Xilica. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max2 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 What exactly are the EQ drawbacks for the Jubs? Is it because of the two way design which most use, if so, would things be easier just going to three way setup? Likely which this is not, why the notch and big disappointment with the initial EQing and why does this design needs such insight in EQing and not so normal like the rest of the Klipsch offering? The K-horn definitely has its peaks here and there, is the Jub grossly past this and is really required to be active? I have just heard analog two way Jubs and wish I could hear an active setup in comparison. So are we past $10K now for a set of Jubs and a $3.5K EQ to boot ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 14 minutes ago, Max2 said: So are we past $10K now for a set of Jubs and a $3.5K EQ to boot ? That's the beauty of it, this DSP is actually pretty affordable considering what you're getting. Even full MSRP is like $1,140. A DX38 in great shape is often $1,500 on eBay, it's out of warranty, and you might need two. Just got to where it didn't make sense anymore. These new Xilica units have more PEQ bands, more powerful processors, double the processor speed on the sampling, a 31 band graphic EQ that I believe didn't exist before, twice the inputs and outputs, it's current, in stock, under warranty... and it's cheaper. And it's approved. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 37 minutes ago, MetropolisLakeOutfitters said: That's the beauty of it, this DSP is actually pretty affordable considering what you're getting. Even full MSRP is like $1,140. A DX38 in great shape is often $1,500 on eBay, it's out of warranty, and you might need two. Just got to where it didn't make sense anymore. These new Xilica units have more PEQ bands, more powerful processors, double the processor speed on the sampling, a 31 band graphic EQ that I believe didn't exist before, twice the inputs and outputs, it's current, in stock, under warranty... and it's cheaper. And it's approved. IOW, time to move on and upgrade or make a better first purchase! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Could a mini-dsp hd be used in this application? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 55 minutes ago, Max2 said: What exactly are the EQ drawbacks for the Jubs? Is it because of the two way design which most use, if so, would things be easier just going to three way setup?... Adding a separate tweeter when you really don't need one because you have a good full-range compression driver that can handle those frequencies without issue--introduces polar coverage problems, especially in a home hi-fi setup, IMO. 1 hour ago, Max2 said: ...why does this design needs such insight in EQing and not so normal like the rest of the Klipsch offering?... Jubs introduce another level of sound quality that responds strongly to better setup than other Klipsch offerings from the past. The more you work to flatten the frequency response and correct phase issues (crossover interference band polar coverage/time alignment issues), the better and more transparent they sound. They sound like nothing that I've heard elsewhere, especially when you get them dialed in well. If you did the same thing with Khorns (i.e., tri-amp, time-align, and EQ flat), you'd get 80-90% of the performance of the Jubs, particularly in terms of improved neutral sound. What you won't get is Jubilee room-filling sound whose soundstage covers the entire end of the room, and the improved clarity of performance that the Jubs present. The other Klipsch Heritage models including Khorns have a significantly narrower soundstage even when dialed-in using DSP. Chris 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 1 hour ago, CECAA850 said: Could a mini-dsp hd be used in this application? It potentially could work, for the most part at least. I think these other units are on a much higher level in terms of quality and capability though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trentster5172 Posted September 18, 2017 Author Share Posted September 18, 2017 ^^^ Yep what Chris A said! My Jubilees smoke my Klipschorns. Jubilees are truly next level which is why they were going to be the replacement for the Klipschorn in the first place. I think I saw a quote that described the Jubilee as the best speaker Klipsch NEVER built- I think Roy may have said it. And officially the two-way Jubilee still doesn't exist. It's not on any price sheets, not on the website, etc. The Jubilee just exists as another option for movie auditoriums on the Pro site as a three-way design with no marketing for home use as a two-way whatsoever. My prediction; however, is that will shortly change as the word gets out. I think in total there are less than 70 people that actually own Jubilees with the largest increase in owners probably this year. I think the new active settings however change the game. I wouldn't be surprised if they become available with a passive crossover or available as active - maybe shipped with something similar to a Klipsch KDA-1000 with all crossover settings, delay, PEQ's etc. pre-programmed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ole Dollar Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 2 hours ago, Chris A said: The more you work to flatten the frequency response and correct phase issues (crossover interference band polar coverage/time alignment issues), the better and more transparent they sound. I tried Roy's settings this weekend and for "out of the box" they are very listenable unlike the settings I tried several months ago. These new settings are much smoother and work with a variety of music. The bass and midbass are well balanced. I now have the Xilica setup with presets for my settings as well as Roy's so it is easy to compare. Compared to my Chris A / REW / XConsole tuning the Roy settings seem to lose some detail and clarity maybe even some punch - I will be sticking with the configuration @Chris A worked up for me. I also plan to do some additional tinkering to better handle some bass issues that are related to my room. I am fairly literate on a PC and did not have any trouble configuring the Xilica or getting REW going. I would love to take a class on REW to better understand how to use it. That being said the help here on our forum has been great and Chris A really spent some time with me so I would be happy. The Xilica sounds amazing and I would recommend it over the passives being talked about for the K691. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 7 hours ago, Trentster5172 said: My Jubilees smoke my Klipschorns. Jubilees are truly next level which is why they were going to be the replacement for the Klipschorn in the first place. I think I saw a quote that described the Jubilee as the best speaker Klipsch NEVER built- I think Roy may have said it. And officially the two-way Jubilee still doesn't exist. It's not on any price sheets, not on the website, etc. I find this whole Jubes discussion fascinating. The Jubes are spoken of with almost reverential respect by those who have them. We all know Klipsch sells speakers to make money, so there must be a reason why these are not readily available. Please correct me if I am wrong. EDIT: @dtel's wife did correct me a little bit downstream. She said they were available and to contact @MetropolisLakeOutfitters for info. Thanks for the correction. -DS They certainly have a golden reputation by those who have them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Md5150 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 22 minutes ago, Ole Dollar said: I tried Roy's settings this weekend and for "out of the box" they are very listenable unlike the settings I tried several months ago. These new settings are much smoother and work with a variety of music. The bass and midbass are well balanced. I now have the Xilica setup with presets for my settings as well as Roy's so it is easy to compare. Compared to my Chris A / REW / XConsole tuning the Roy settings seem to lose some detail and clarity maybe even some punch - I will be sticking with the configuration @Chris A worked up for me. I noticed this as well. I believe it's because roys setting are 24db/oct and my other settings are 48db/oct. They both sound much better than the passives to me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 One thing that should be pointed out is that the settings that were mentioned by the guys above that were ascribed to me (but in reality were a joint effort in each case) were custom tailored to the room, Jubs, and even personal tastes in each case, while Roy's settings are generic in every instance. I don't want anyone to lose sight of this. Roy did a big service to all Jubilee buyers using DSP crossovers with his latest settings with the Xilica, and I want to personally thank him for that work. If you're willing to take some time one day (approximately 3-4 hours clock time) and you want to try out dialing in your loudspeakers using a Xilica a little more (or any other good DSP crossover--like an EV, or perhaps even a miniDSP 2x4HD), feel free to PM me and we'll make it happen. All it takes is email, REW freeware running on your computer with a calibration microphone in room with the Jubs, and Xilica XConsole (freeware) or other relevant DSP crossover software to control the DSP crossover. The process is now very straightforward. If you want to try it out yourself, here is a thread on integrating a Xilica crossover into your system: Here is a thread using REW's Equalizer optimizer: Then you can do an A-B listening comparison to decide which sounds more to your liking. If you own a DSP crossover(like a Xilica) and calibration microphone, it costs nothing but a little of your time. Chris 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel's wife Posted September 18, 2017 Moderators Share Posted September 18, 2017 46 minutes ago, wvu80 said: I find this whole Jubes discussion fascinating. The Jubes are spoken of with almost reverential respect by those who have them. We all know Klipsch sells speakers to make money, so there must be a reason why these are not readily available. Please correct me if I am wrong. They certainly have a golden reputation by those who have them. They are available. Contact @MetropolisLakeOutfitters to order. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 2 hours ago, wvu80 said: We all know Klipsch sells speakers to make money, so there must be a reason why these are not readily available. Please correct me if I am wrong. They certainly have a golden reputation by those who have them. Outside of fanatics and people who don't mind refrigerator sized speakers, there's not a huge demand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel's wife Posted September 18, 2017 Moderators Share Posted September 18, 2017 1 minute ago, CECAA850 said: Outside of fanatics and people who don't mind refrigerator sized speakers, there's not a huge demand. The demand has increased dramatically in the last year, but they are still considered a special order product. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, dtel's wife said: The demand has increased dramatically in the last year, but they are still considered a special order product. They're fantastic sounding speakers but not practical for 99.99% of the population. They're also not advertised so they're popularity for home use is strictly word of mouth. Audition???? Fogeddaboutit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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