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jimjimbo

"The Vietnam War" on PBS

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21 hours ago, jimjimbo said:

 

Another masterpiece by filmmaker Ken Burns.

 

 

See, we agree on many things -   

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19 minutes ago, babadono said:

I was extremely Blessed in this life that the year I turned 18 the draft was ended. Otherwise I would have had a no win decision to make, go to Canada or Vietnam. God Bless all you men who were forced to go there and thank you for your service and sacrifice.

 

Not that held my hand up to volunteer but was just the right age to be part of the "lottery" for enlistment. I believe my number was in the 

mid-200's and as the war was playing itself out it seemed a long shot my number would be called. And it never was. Now people willfully enter lottos  to win $xxxxxxxxx; the Vietnam era you were Entered into the lotto sponsored by Uncle Sam. It was Not one you wanted to see your number early on. 

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A brief story from one of my professors here in Chicago.

 

There was a police riot (it is sometimes described) during the protests in Grant Park outside of the Democratic National Convention.  He went to the park the next day and reports the smell of tear gas was still in the air.

 

Somehow, the police had the name of a young woman and info that she attended the college. They hounded the college for more information.  The college refused.

 

The woman never returned to classes and disappeared. Essentially she lost the opportunity to get her degree out of fear.

 

I thought this should be told.

 

WMcD

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2 hours ago, WMcD said:

A brief story from one of my professors here in Chicago.

 

There was a police riot (it is sometimes described) during the protests in Grant Park outside of the Democratic National Convention.  He went to the park the next day and reports the smell of tear gas was still in the air.

 

Somehow, the police had the name of a young woman and info that she attended the college. They hounded the college for more information.  The college refused.

 

The woman never returned to classes and disappeared. Essentially she lost the opportunity to get her degree out of fear.

 

I thought this should be told.

 

WMcD

Did you go to Northeastern?   Was her name Donna Gripe?  

 

I think I have read everything there is to read on the '68 Convention and the riots, including the Chicago 7 (down from 8) trial transcripts and the Comission transcripts. I still find it one of the most fascinating chapters in American jurisprudence. 

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No, not that school.  I feel like I've said too much as it is.

 

My thought is that the Chicago 7 episode was the most publicized but many other protesters in Grant Park were being hunted down to one extent or another.

 

The zeitgeist presented by the government was that if you protest the war, you're a communist sympathizer.

 

It is by no means an overstatement that the government tuned the military on protestors, killing them and charging them with crimes.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings

 

Younger people here might not be aware of the extent of it.

 

WMcD

 

 

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5 hours ago, WMcD said:

No, not that school.  I feel like I've said too much as it is.

 

My thought is that the Chicago 7 episode was the most publicized but many other protesters in Grant Park were being hunted down to one extent or another.

 

The zeitgeist presented by the government was that if you protest the war, you're a communist sympathizer.

 

It is by no means an overstatement that the government tuned the military on protestors, killing them and charging them with crimes.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings

 

Younger people here might not be aware of the extent of it.

 

WMcD

 

 

 

You have not said too much!

 

Here is what Walker said, in regard to a report asked for by Milton Eisenhower (the ex-President's brother)

 

"What I wrote in my personal summary of the over-300 page fact-filled documentation of the tragic events is this: 'A majority of Chicago police acted responsibly; a minority engaged in violence that can only be termed a police riot ... No one who reads objectively the facts detailed in "Rights in Conflict" could reach any other conclusion regarding a minority of the police on duty; those facts were taken from many hours of movies, thousands of still pictures and thousands of eyewitness accounts, including those contained in over 1,000 FBI statements taken from participants.  ...

 

That violence was made all the more shocking by the fact that it was often inflicted upon persons who had broken no law, disobeyed no order, made no threat. These included peaceful demonstrators, onlookers, and large numbers of residents who were simply passing through, or happened to live in, the areas where confrontations were occurring.  Newsmen and photographers were singled out for assault, and their equipment deliberately damaged. Fundamental police training was ignored; and officers, when on the scene, were often unable to control their men. As on police officer put it: "What happened didn't have anything to do with police work.' "

 

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2 hours ago, WMcD said:

No, not that school.  I feel like I've said too much as it is.

 

My thought is that the Chicago 7 episode was the most publicized but many other protesters in Grant Park were being hunted down to one extent or another.

 

The zeitgeist presented by the government was that if you protest the war, you're a communist sympathizer.

 

It is by no means an overstatement that the government tuned the military on protestors, killing them and charging them with crimes.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings

 

Younger people here might not be aware of the extent of it.

 

WMcD

 

 

Don't forget the lawyers.  The Guild defended many, many protesters and the Mitchell DOJ went after them with a vengence.  It all came from the top as evidenced by the White House Tapes.

 

Bill Kunstler was given 4 and 1/2 years on about a dozen citations for contempt after the trial of the Chicago 7.

 

As the documentary mentioned the first night, it was the most divisive time in America since the Civil War.

 

 

 

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Another anecdote.

 

Sometime in the ‘80’s I was travelling and got into a brief conversation at an airport with a businessman. Essentially he said:

 

“So, you’re from Chicago.  I was travelling there for a business meeting just before the Democratic National Convention.  We landed at O’Hare and during de-boarding had to walk between rows of military aircraft.”

 

I’d have thought that ORD had Jet-Bridge’s back then but it is possible some governmental agency shut them down.  It is probably true that there were military aircraft at ORD back then and it wouldn’t take much to taxi them over to the commercial area.

 

My conclusion is that this was a show of force by the government against citizens. Further, some agency might have been filming the passengers as they walked on the tarmac, maybe even from the military aircraft.

 

Given the history of the time this is no paranoia.  

 

WMcD

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The last episode was our troops attacking a hill and getting butchered with 2/3rds casualties. The enemy troops pulled out and our troops were told to return to base after about an hour on top of the hill. All of our troops are standing around and saying to themselves---"What the ----?"

JJK

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7 minutes ago, JJkizak said:

The last episode was our troops attacking a hill and getting butchered with 2/3rds casualties. The enemy troops pulled out and our troops were told to return to base after about an hour on top of the hill. All of our troops are standing around and saying to themselves---"What the ----?"

JJK

 

All of those fortunate enough to have lived -- 

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On 9/20/2017 at 8:29 PM, oldtimer said:

I've said too much
I haven't said enough

Ive got my spine...

Ive got my orange crush.

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On 9/19/2017 at 1:58 PM, babadono said:

I was extremely Blessed in this life that the year I turned 18 the draft was ended. Otherwise I would have had a no win decision to make, go to Canada or Vietnam. God Bless all you men who were forced to go there and thank you for your service and sacrifice.

I was in my second year of college when the draft lottery was held.  About 10 of us in the dorm room listing to the birth dates be called.   Somehow I missed my birthday and towards the end I was getting ecstatic that I had such a high number.  Alas I missed it,  I had number 47 I believe.   Needless to say my grades got much better and and I stayed in school till graduation.   Graduated in 1973 with a BA.  This first class out of the past 10 or 15 years that actually attended four years of college and the draft was over at graduation.  Our little hometown lost 8 kids in the war.  I have always felt some guilty every since.

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4 hours ago, WMcD said:

Another anecdote.

 

Sometime in the ‘80’s I was travelling and got into a brief conversation at an airport with a businessman. Essentially he said:

 

“So, you’re from Chicago.  I was travelling there for a business meeting just before the Democratic National Convention.  We landed at O’Hare and during de-boarding had to walk between rows of military aircraft.”

 

I’d have thought that ORD had Jet-Bridge’s back then but it is possible some governmental agency shut them down.  It is probably true that there were military aircraft at ORD back then and it wouldn’t take much to taxi them over to the commercial area.

 

My conclusion is that this was a show of force by the government against citizens. Further, some agency might have been filming the passengers as they walked on the tarmac, maybe even from the military aircraft.

 

Given the history of the time this is no paranoia.  

 

WMcD

The Commission Report verified there were 6,000 regular army and 6,000 Illinois Natl. Guard.  The 12,000 federal troups were in addition to the 12,000 officers at Chicago Police Department had available.

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I watched tonight's episode ending in Kent State.  I probably will not be able to sleep.

 

WMcD

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3 hours ago, WMcD said:

I watched tonight's episode ending in Kent State.  I probably will not be able to sleep.

 

WMcD

 

I know the feeling.

 

I hope we are not sleeping now.

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