When is a Klipsch no longer a Klipsch?

[DizRotus]

This is a questions that has different answers to different people.  IMO, they're subjective opinions, so there are no wrong answers.  At one extreme, you probably have Roy, @Chief bonehead ,who seems to not consider any modification to a Klipsch design as an upgrade.  Roy is free to contradict that analysis.  At the other extreme are speakers so heavily modified as to seriously call into question whether they should continue to wear a Klipsch badge.

 

In another thread below.  Rich, @richieb, reasonably stated his opinion that the La Scalas I refurbished for the local high school band are no longer Klipsch.  I respectfully disagreed,  IMO, the refreshed caps in the network, Crites woofers, djk bass bin mod, and braces in the doghouse do not render them as no longer Klipsch.

 

On the other hand, IMO, the @ClaudeJ1 Super Heresys I'm building are not Klipsch -- and never were.  I am building the enclosures from 3/4 Baltic birch, the woofers are Eminence, the autoformers are from Crites, the networks are scratch built.  The only Klipsch parts are the K57 drivers, K701 horns and possibly the K76 tweeters, which have Crites titanium diaphragms.  Even the tweeters might be replaced by Eminence tweeters.

 

Are there bright lines?  Building a new enclosure to original specs and repopulating with original components, IMO, still entitles a Klipsch badge.  Using an original enclosure and replacing with all non-Klipsch componentes, IMO, renders it, "no longer Klipsch."

 

I'm interested in what others think.

 

 

 

[muel]

Yeah, I'd say there is a point where you really can't call them Klipsch anymore.  Funny thing... if I ever finish the bass bins for my La Scalas I will have actually replaced every bit of my La Scalas.  So what do I call the conglomeration of what is left?

Klipsch "Inspired"

 

The awesome part is then I will have a pair of La Scalas to put somewhere else!

[avguytx]

I'm pretty sure the Belle clones I'm building can never be considered a Klipsch speaker since the cabinets will be built by me and not original.  Although, they will follow the plans pretty dang close.  Even if I'm using a brand new pair of K-33 woofers, K-55 mids/K-500 horns, Type AA crossovers but Crites CT-120 tweeters, they still aren't Klipsch.  I have 2 different sets of emblems, the new plastic pair and the older laser etched, but even deliberate on using those as I feel it sacrilegious in using them.  They will be built in honor of Klipsch Belle's that I cannot seem to come across around here for a reasonable amount.  

[The Dude]

In avguytx's case, could you call it a clone?  I can agree with one thing, if you replace all components beside the cabinet, then I would have to say it is no longer Klipsch. But I don't see how replacing caps would not longer make it Klipsch.  If Klipsch does not offer certain replacement parts, then there needs to a list of Klipsch authorized replacement parts that we can go to, when something goes wrong (my opinion).  Now one could say, its up to the dealer to supply these parts, as I work for a dealership of some sort and my customers rely on me to find them replacement parts.   However, we or the manufacture don't go knocking on the doors of those who are attempting to sell their items as original, even when I know I put an aftermarket part on their machine.   

 

If one performed the bass reflex mod to a Lascala and all the other components are original, then I would call it a modified Lascala (still made by Klipsch, just modified by whoever).   Like adding a Holley carb to a Chevy Nova,  For Sale, 70 Chevy Nova with Holley Carb, Or for sale custom Chevy Nova.  My buddy built a replica of a 32' Ford roadster, I think the only part of that car that is Ford, is the Ford 9" rear end.  If memory serves me correct, he refers to it as that, a replica of a 32' Ford Roadster.

 

Another thing I could agree on, is to elimante the word upgrade.  What may be an upgrade to one, is not to another.  I like my original Heresys and Cornwalls, plain and simple (I actually wish I could back and swap the original caps out, to see if there is any change)

 

Those are just my 3 cents worth.

[wvu80]

I don't think making changes to components is enough to "de-certify" a Klipsch speaker from the Klipsch label.  I'll use La Scala as an example.

 

There was a time when the LS had a Type A crossover.  Did the next generation LS quit being a LS when the Type AA was introduced?  The LS also has variations on their own theme, ie the difference between a LS and a La Scala Industrial (LSI).  Different components, different sound, different design, both still La Scala.

 

As far as I am concerned the LS can be called that as long as it came out of the Klipsch factory.  Even highly modded the heart of the speaker is still a Klipsch.

[The Dude]

2 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

I don't think making changes to components is enough to "de-certify" a Klipsch speaker from the Klipsch label.  I'll use La Scala as an example.

 

There was a time when the LS had a Type A crossover.  Did the next generation LS quit being a LS when the Type AA was introduced?  The LS also has variations on their own theme, ie the difference between a LS and a La Scala Industrial (LSI).  Different components, different sound, different design, both still La Scala.

 

As far as I am concerned the LS can be called that as long as it came out of the Klipsch factory.  Even highly modded the heart of the speaker is still a Klipsch.

Great point, If I had to guess these are authorized Klipsch updates.  Therefore, why Klipsch may still call them Klipsch La Scala.

[wvu80]

15 minutes ago, The Dude said:

In avguytx's case, could you call it a clone? 

 

I can agree with one thing, if you replace all components beside the cabinet, then I would have to say it is no longer Klipsch. But I don't see how replacing caps would not longer make it Klipsch. 

Yes, avguy in Texas home-built speaker would be a "Klipsch clone."  It was born in avguytx's garage.

 

I used to race a Husqvarna 250 MX'er.  I replaced the tank, tires, handlebars, carb, expansion chamber, fenders, rear shocks and front forks with after market items.  I don't think anybody thought I was riding a "WVU80" I was riding a Husky 250.

[wvu80]

3 hours ago, DizRotus said:

the La Scalas I refurbished for the local high school band are no longer Klipsch.  I respectfully disagreed,  IMO, the refreshed caps in the network, Crites woofers, djk bass bin mod, and braces in the doghouse do not render them as no longer Klipsch.

Yes, I think those are still Klipsch La Scala and can wear the badge.

 

3 hours ago, DizRotus said:

 Building a new enclosure to original specs and repopulating with original components, IMO, still entitle a Klipsch badge.

IMO this is not a Klipsch LS, and I would feel uncomfortable putting the Klipsch badge on it.

 

I would also qualify my statement in that this is YOUR project for use in YOUR home.  If you were selling these out of your garage with badges I think that would be out-of-bounds.  But for your own use in your own home?  I don't think a badge hurts anything.

[mark1101]

The way I approach this is when it comes time to sell.  What do you have?

 

I would say if you touched anything.........you have a "modified" Klipsch speaker.  It can be very slight or anything up to highly modified.  If it's anything other than stock I would consider it modified, and that it should be disclosed when selling.

 

Recapped?  Definitely no longer original.  Replaced any component with aftermarket parts........yeah, that's definitely modified.  Changed the finish in some way?  Yup, modified.

[JohnA]

I'll give you replacement parts, in kind, and call it "Klipsch".  But if you modify the cabinet/bass horn/crossover and change the sound, it has to be something else. 

 

Not that this discussion really matters. 

[cincymat]

Pretty sure in the classic car world, non original cars simply can't be called that. So the term tribute car came into play. You can build an exact replica of a 427 1968 Corvette from a combination or original parts and NOS parts but it's not that car. Didn't leave the factory that way. In a way, modifying 30 year old speakers and trying to improve them a bit is the same concept. Is your modified Corvette a Chevy? Sure it is. It's just not a factory original Chevy. So, imho modified speakers that were originally built by Klipsch are still Klipsch. But no longer original.  It only really matters when it's time to sell. People need to know exactly what they're buying. Me? I like ones that are refreshed. You? Maybe you like yours as built. 

 

Mark

[jimjimbo]

Completely agree with John.

[JBCODD]

What he said. 

 No sense reinventing the wheel when a grading system already exists. All we need is an executive panel, of applicable stakeholders, to convene to modify such standards so as to render them useful as part of the inherent flow of this and other formats, going forward.

 

(How's dat fer corp speak)

[wvu80]

23 minutes ago, cincymat said:

Pretty sure in the classic car world, non original cars simply can't be called that.

What is the "classic car world?"  That sounds like a very narrow part of the used car community.

 

If I as a regular guy off the streets buy a used Honda Accord with a K&N air filer pretty sure it is still a Honda.

[cincymat]

44 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

What is the "classic car world?"  That sounds like a very narrow part of the used car community.

 

If I as a regular guy off the streets buy a used Honda Accord with a K&N air filer pretty sure it is still a Honda.

If you have a chance watch a televised auto auction from Barrett Jackson, Mecum,  RM Sotheby's, or Auctions America. There you can learn what the classic car world looks like.  Better yet go to the Mecum auction in Indianapolis next May and I'll personally show you around.   It's really fun if you like old cars. 

 

Mark

[wvu80]

Just now, cincymat said:

If you have a chance watch a televised auto auction from Barrett Jackson, Mecum,  RM Sotheby's, or Auctions America.

Yeah, we have a channel that covers those.  Pretty cool.  I understand the concept you are getting across.

 

The reason I won't spend a lot of time in this "what is a Klipsch" is because we don't have formal rules like the classic car world.  It's all subjective, all personal opinion.

 

FYI when I put a Heritage speaker on my spreadsheet, my note usually says the condition, A,B, C, D, F and if it has been modded or updated, that is a +. If the guts have been ripped out and there are all new drivers, xo's etc then it gets two pluses, ++.  Just for my notes. 

 

If a Klipsch has been wildly upgraded then I make a note of the price but it does not get included in the average for unmolested speakers because those speakers usually command a premium and may be $1,000 above the average for that model and is not directly comparable.

[oscarsear]

Eh..........  hair splitting.  Terms such as "Klipsch inspired" or a "Klipsch carcass" could well apply in most cases.  No doubt Paul Klipsch desired to bring a high quality speaker at a reasonable price point and would have no trouble with his concepts being modified at will and still carrying his signature in the essential spirit of a horn based speaker.  As for resale purposes just be honest about what being offered.  I have owned 3 sets of Khorns.  Two pair were original Klipsch products but of such different vintage as to not be at all alike.  My current pair are modified but are 100% Klipsch IMHO.

[richieb]

1 hour ago, cincymat said:

If you have a chance watch a televised auto auction from Barrett Jackson, Mecum,  RM Sotheby's, or Auctions America. There you can learn what the classic car world looks like.  Better yet go to the Mecum auction in Indianapolis next May and I'll personally show you around.   It's really fun if you like old cars. 

 

Mark

 

I'm sure its even more fun when you bring wheelbarrows full of money, large bills please. Although now and then some good deals roll across the stage. But I know Cincy all too well, his wheelbarrows are Always well stocked?!

[cincymat]

30 minutes ago, richieb said:

 

I'm sure its even more fun when you bring wheelbarrows full of money, large bills please. Although now and then some good deals roll across the stage. But I know Cincy all too well, his wheelbarrows are Always well stocked?!

 

For me classic/collector cars are like elephants. I like looking at them but wouldn't want to take care of one.  And, I'm prone to tweak things to suit my taste and that trait really isn't good when collecting cars.  

[tigerwoodKhorns]

3 hours ago, John Albright said:

Not that this discussion rally matters. 

 

You hit the nail on the head.  AT what point do you take the "Chevy" or "Harley" emblem off of a toy that everyone modifies? 

 

I am surprised in reading a recent post stating that if a speaker is modified, then it is worth less than an unmodified speaker.  I have been on this forum a long time and that was not the case in the past.  Good mods up'ed the price and were not seen as a detriment.