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Elon's "BFR"


Mallette

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1 hour ago, Zen Traveler said:

I'm telling you guys the budget restraints makes all of this a moot issue.

What are you pointing out here?  While I've advocated deficit spending on infrastructure, energy, and space in the past as necessary to avoid even bigger deficits in the future, I have realized and stated clearly here that private enterprise is clearly the winner in space.  NASA and the government will need to catch up and be there, but best do what they do now with ships, planes, and such and purchase the equipment from private enterprise.  

 

Dave

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3 hours ago, Mallette said:
3 hours ago, wvu80 said:

He has demonstrated failures in several ventures

Name them.

The Hyper Loop and economical SpaceX passenger travel.

 

I posted videos.  The facts are not in question.

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30 minutes ago, Mallette said:

How can that which has yet to be tested be a failure?  -Dave

Ah c'mon Dave, you aren't even trying to put your contention to scientific scrutney.  Earlier in this thread I posted the video which details why the Hyper Loop is a failure, in fact I posted two. 

 

Sorry you missed them, they were crystal clear.

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15 hours ago, Mallette said:

We didn't stop WWII when people died and we were loosing.  We fixed it and moved on. 

I feel equating the two is misguided. In the midst of WWII the country knew it was at war and what it was up against. What you seem to be proposing I can assure you the VAST majority of taxpayers wouldn't be for funding and as you and others have mentioned, there is the private route that some are pursuing. 

 

15 hours ago, Mallette said:

Fixing and flying are answers enough.

And a great many of our population have religious beliefs that think everything has been preordained and others who want moral and infrastructure issues dealt with financially.

 

Hey. We may be on the same page but arguing different things. I am all for space exploration but insofar as Government is concerned it needs to be considered part of the Budget. 

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15 hours ago, Mallette said:

What are you pointing out here?  While I've advocated deficit spending on infrastructure, energy, and space in the past as necessary to avoid even bigger deficits in the future,

I agree with you on infrastructure and energy but Space was where we disagreed. I also don't think you have popular support for the latter. 

15 hours ago, Mallette said:

 

I have realized and stated clearly here that private enterprise is clearly the winner in space. 

Agreed.

15 hours ago, Mallette said:

 

NASA and the government will need to catch up and be there, but best do what they do now with ships, planes, and such and purchase the equipment from private enterprise.  

 

Dave

There is a lot to unpack in the above but I agree that Government will be there but I'm not so sure they will need to "catch up." 

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11 hours ago, wvu80 said:

Sorry you missed them, they were crystal clear.

No.  Dismissed them as for each one of those there are about 10 times as many that suggest it will work.  Further, when it comes to science, a spoken opinion is worthless compared to actual tests.  I am not going to post links to all those, including the Maryland project, that suggest it is worth a test.  

 

Do I KNOW it will work?  Of course not...hasn't been tested.  Does Elon get the benefit of the doubt compared to these couple of skeptics?  Absolutely...he has a track record and they don't.

 

Dave

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5 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said:

I also don't think you have popular support for the latter. 

Agreed.  The population was gradually sold, starting with the cancellation of Apollo and NERVA, an anti-space message uniformly ever since.  We wouldn't be in space at all except for the ISS.  And we would not be progressing except for Musk and the others demonstrating that I can be done with a fraction of the time and money the government uses.  The populace is warming again...and once some of this really gets exciting I think you'll see the "space madness" return to the people as it was when the entire planet all watched the first lunar landing.  

 

Dave

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6 minutes ago, Mallette said:

The populace is warming again...and once some of this really gets exciting I think you'll see the "space madness" return to the people as it was when the entire planet all watched the first lunar landing.  

 

Very inspirational Dave, but given their reaction to Climate Change and deficit spending on contemporary issues I feel your vision of Government investing (as much as in the past) will never be on the drawing board again...

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30 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said:

Very inspirational Dave, but given their reaction to Climate Change and deficit spending on contemporary issues I feel your vision of Government investing (as much as in the past) will never be on the drawing board again...

2 words...Private Enterprise...2 more Venture Capitalists... doubters and disbelievers will be left standing there talking to themselves...B)

as we careen into deep space manned instead of probes with bells and whistles and those beautiful images...only the bold and courageous need apply from NASA's space camp...:blush2:

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13 minutes ago, billybob said:

2 words...Private Enterprise...2 more Venture Capitalists... doubters and disbelievers will be left standing there talking to themselves...B)

Yup. Government is going to be talking bout everything from who is going to pay to rebuild from climate disasters to what steps to do about it. No easy answers and no 'free money." 

 

16 hours ago, Mallette said:

spending on infrastructure, energy, and space

I will also add that in Dave's comment above, Government spending/investing on infrastructure was at the top of everyone's list, regardless of party. 

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2 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said:

Yup. Government is going to be talking bout everything from who is going to pay to rebuild from climate disasters to what steps to do about it. No easy answers and no 'free money." 

 

I will also add that in Dave's comment above, Government spending/investing on infrastructure was at the top of the list everyone seemed to agree upon. 

Dave's vision could still happen once the dust settles and gov. is thinking more clearly. By the parties as mentioned before take care of the bulk of what is needed in the way of funding for space adventure, it will leave more money for earthbound infrastructure and the poor and hungry of this nation. It is my due consideration that the USA can do more than 1 thing and do it well and still chew gum without stumbling or bumbling their step. The youth of this country are not wanting to be earthbound indefinitely. The technology is there, the money is coming, and the willing are already here.The USA is a leader and a do-er, not a follow-er. I am proud but not too proud as pride may come before a fall. Man has free-will and faith to guide him.

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1 hour ago, Zen Traveler said:

Very inspirational Dave, but given their reaction to Climate Change and deficit spending on contemporary issues I feel your vision of Government investing (as much as in the past) will never be on the drawing board again...

No Climate Change red herrings, please, in this thread.  Irrelevant.  However, I agree with your statement and have said so for a long time.  Since it is such investment, starting with the railroads, canals, and, infrastructure, science, technology and such in the 19th all the way through the wars, depression and then starting to end around Apollo that has us in the economic mess we are in.  Until people, and our leaders, understand that deficit spending with an ROI like these things is what powered us to greatness and the lack of them will cause us to sink into national poverty and international irrelevancy we are, and remain, doomed.  

 

Dave

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12 hours ago, wvu80 said:

Ah c'mon Dave, you aren't even trying to put your contention to scientific scrutney.  Earlier in this thread I posted the video which details why the Hyper Loop is a failure, in fact I posted two. 

 

Sorry you missed them, they were crystal clear.

In this day and time, call it the now, we are on the cusp of a new era of space adventure and discovery. Fortunately for us, the work has been done as to which platform may be the logical step forward. No, it is not easy however, as has been mentioned, great things are not always easy, yet history up to a point has shown me, it is doable and worthy of doing. Let the best platform/format prevail...:emotion-21:

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1 hour ago, billybob said:

great things are not always easy

A couple of relevant JFK quotes:

"We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too."

 

"So it is not surprising that some would have us stay where we are a little longer to rest, to wait. But this city of Houston, this State of Texas, this country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them. This country was conquered by those who moved forward--and so will space."

 

Love him or hate him, one cannot deny that those are inspiring words.  Few believed we'd get there at all, and almost no one believed we'd do it in a decade.  Further, this deficit project fueled one of the greatest periods of prosperity the US has ever seen, nearly 30 years.  Yes, some downs, but not as bad as they might have been with our great projects powering the economy with 100s of thousands of direct jobs, innovative new products that created 100s of thousands more, and the kind of national confidence that comes from knowing that NOBODY does it better than Americans.  

 

Now, we sit on our hands and whine about the economy.  At this point, it may be eternal rest where we are unless we wake up to what we do best.

 

Dave

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44 minutes ago, Mallette said:

A couple of relevant JFK quotes

They are in part what was referring to. If indeed our resources are dwindling, then procrastination is an issue. In order to keep hope alive and strive to do better for our growing population of the up and coming, something has to be done to spur the economy. A brother ten years older than myself, had the opportunity to go to Orlando, Cocoa, the Cape Canaveral complex to work in high paying jobs in clean rooms helping to do the work needed for the journey into space. Later he and another brother were involved in the Disney project as pipefitters for several years. The work I later did in a high-technology field, had some roots derived from what had gone before. After having this hobby, which became a career for many others doing the same or similar things, I witnessed that same innovation make somewhat obsolete the path I was on. There are periods of growth, peaks and cycles, where the inevitable wheels of progress continue to turn. There is much in what has been said when assessing the recent history of the ascent of man. It is not my day in the sun I am expecting. Looking into the eyes and faces of those seeking to better themselves, there must be grist for the mill to continue, else the negative, IMO, views of doom and gloom dominate, a prospective view of a positive future for mankind in general, and the young in particular. We can explore the nuts and bolts of this future or, we can allow the new creative among us, to grow and blossom into a brighter future.

As always thanks for the mindful engagement from all...Billy

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Elon Musk shares first photo of Boring Company’s underground LA tunnel

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/elon-musk-shares-first-photo-of-boring-company’s-underground-la-tunnel/ar-AAucev2

 

AAucgLe.img?h=486&w=728&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f

Elon Musk on Saturday shared the very first image of the Boring Company’s underground Los Angeles tunnel that is actively under construction. We’ve known for months now that Musk’s cleverly named tunnel-digging venture has been testing equipment and technology beneath SpaceX’s Hawthorne, California headquarters and elsewhere in the LA suburb, after the city granted the company a test permit back in August. But this is the first image Musk has shared of what looks like a fully built out underground system similar to what the entrepreneur first unveiled earlier this year in a concept video.

 

The Boring Company was founded as an experimental effort in alternative urban transportation, with Musk envisioning a series of underground roadways that ferry vehicles to and from destinations using electric tracks. It’s effectively a high-speed subway exclusively for cars. Musk has picked LA as the testing ground both because he works in nearby Hawthorne and because the city’s notorious traffic jams gives the Boring Company a clear-sighted target.

 

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Looks like a failure to me...  

 

I was aware of this, and the Maryland HyperLoop demonstration project as well.  However, some folks stop at the very first reference that supports their position even when hundreds of other references do not so it is often pointless.  

 

I remain a skeptic about this as it is incredibly complex and advanced.  But, as I said, Musk has demonstrated success in everything so far and the Tesla, the Merlin and Super Draco engines, the Falcon rockets, and Dragon transportation system aren't exactly science fair projects.  So while skeptical, I believe there is a track record that says it will work.  

 

Rather doubt he will test it with a bunch of school kids on board...

 

Dave

 

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23 minutes ago, Mallette said:

Looks like a failure to me...  

 

I was aware of this, and the Maryland HyperLoop demonstration project as well.  However, some folks stop at the very first reference that supports their position even when hundreds of other references do not so it is often pointless.  

 

I remain a skeptic about this as it is incredibly complex and advanced.  But, as I said, Musk has demonstrated success in everything so far and the Tesla, the Merlin and Super Draco engines, the Falcon rockets, and Dragon transportation system aren't exactly science fair projects.  So while skeptical, I believe there is a track record that says it will work.  

 

Rather doubt he will test it with a bunch of school kids on board...

 

Dave

 

Lol, !

Think that he is not a circus actor and not a one trick pony entrepreneur either. Sortof like that chewing gum and walking thingamabob.

Pioneers in industry are maybe born every day yet, few make it to the top of their professions...:):emotion-21:

What this country needs...pioneers, and figure you know how to recognize them!?

If not, I will tell you...

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If the next rage is to be space travel, we are going to have to figure out how to surpass warp speeds dramatically.  4.2 light years is the distance to the nearest star.  All the rest in between - the moon, the planets, asteroids, etc. - are not habitable.  I don't see large populations living happily on barren surfaces just because we can put them in climate-controlled bubbles.

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