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Some basic Scott 299C Questions


ksquared

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OK, think of me as just landing from Pluto, not knowing much of anything about the tube amps/pre-amps.  I've done some research, and it seems the 299C is rated mighty excellent.  Now, not to debate, but I have a few questions.

 

1)  Why is the 299C so spectacular?  And is the 299D even better?  Why didn't they keep going with the 299E?

2)  Is the 299C a pre-amp, and thus needing an amp, or can it work on its own?

3)  Will the 299C work with only two speakers, or can you have the center speaker and a subwoofer with it too?

4)  Are there any Klipsch speakers it wouldn't be good with or work properly with?

5)  is there a modern tube amp/pre-amp that is just as well-respected?

6)  Are the tube amps only used with playing vinyl records?

 

Hopefully there are some patient people out there, as I know these are ridiculously basic questions, and I appreciate any help.

 

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Not everyone considers the 299C to be so spectacular, and there are many other vintage amps which you may find superior.  Yes, it is a good amp which mates well with many kinds of speakers.  Are there better sounding amps?  Well, that depends on  individual taste.

 

There are many considerations here:  1) what is your budget? 2) what are you trying to accomplish by going to a tube amp (are you looking for a bright or softer sound, huge sound stage, silky smooth highs, etc.)? 3) which Klipsch speakers are you considering?  4) what are your listening requirements (such as listening level, distance from the speakers when listening, types of music you enjoy, characteristics of your listening room such as size and furnishings, and much more)?

 

Also, when considering vintage equipment, you have to accept that there is no long term factory warranty (that said, Ken at AEA offers a 6 month warranty which isn't much if you plan to keep the amp long term: http://aeaaudio.com/vintage-amp-store/).  As with vintage cars, ongoing repair costs can be part of the package.  Switches and controls, which have had an unknown amount of wear, are failure prone.  Anyone who denies this reality isn't being honest with you.  Transformers can fail and can be very costly to replace.  

 

So, depending on all of these factors, there may be dozens of possible choices for you.  Most importantly, it's imperative that you audition a prospective amp in your system before making a decision.  Synergy between the amp and speakers can be critical.  No one can know what your ears will tell you, so taking someone else's perspective can be financially risky.

 

 

Maynard

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Information from HHScott.com:

 

 

299(A) Scott_299 tn.jpg (3247 bytes)

Scott_299 (top) tn.jpg (6016 bytes)
Stereo
40-watt
Integrated
Amplifier
17-wpc (RMS)
1958-1960 $200
Scott's first
"Stereomaster" Integrated Amp


See "Editor's Picks"

"Christmas Tree" tri-function neon indicators, unique to 299-series

bias control common to both channels
 
wide "C" case/chassis 

 

11 tubes:

(4) 12AX7
(2) 6BL8(floating paraphase inverter w/AC balance pots)

(4) 7189

(1) 5AR4
299-B Scott_299B tn.jpg (5461 bytes) Stereo
50-watt
Integrated
Amplifier
21-wpc (RMS)
1960-1961 $210

See "Editor's Picks" 

Larger transformers, changed phase splitters

Minor styling changes to knobs, indicators, logo/lettering,  double-H, logo, replaced oval logo.

used wide "C" case/chassis 

 

11 tubes:

(4) 12AX7
(2)6U8/6GH8(floating paraphase inverter w/AC balance pots)

(4) 7189

(1) 5AR4
299-C Scott_299C tn.jpg (5264 bytes) Stereo
72-watt
Integrated
Amplifier
31-wpc (RMS)

or

28-wpc (RMS)
smaller transformer versions
1961-1964 $230
Major upgrade for 299-series adapted from the older LK-72 (kit) 7591-design

Added Front-panel Headphone Jack,
More powerful final section

center channel volume control

some late "C" versions had 233 circuitry and smaller TRA-8-5-4 transformers 

11 tubes:

(4) 12AX7
(2) 6U8 or7199
(Split-load phase inverter)
(4) 7591

(1) 5AR4
299D Scott_299D tn.jpg (4222 bytes) Stereo
80-watt
Integrated
Amplifier
34-wpc (RMS)
1964-1966 $235
See 299C above
See LK-72-B (kit) 

S/N 249780 & up: used 233's output xformers:
TRA-8-5-4


Updated, Extruded front panel styling

Minor service-related improvements

 used wide "C" case/chassis 


11 tubes:

(4) 12AX7
(2) 6U8 or7199
(Split-load phase inverter)
(4) 7591

(1) 5AR4
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The Scott 299b was my first integrated tube amp 8 years ago.  I think it is an excellent choice for an introduction to tubes!   Of course, you do have to accept how old these are but Craig at NOSvalves has taken good care of anything I have ever sent him.  In the chart from HHScott.com you can see the evolution of the 299 through the various models.  Some prefer the 299b to the other models.  My experience of the 7591 tubes vs the 7189 is the 7591 seem to have more solid bass but the 7189 is a sweeter sound.  Others can weigh in on that.  

 

Are there better?  Sure, but I really like my 299b!  I've since paired it with a rebuilt Scott 350b tuner that pulls in stations better than almost anything else I have.  I don't know how else to describe listening to music with the 299 except as a lot of FUN!


You mentioned a center channel... it has a derived center channel output.  It is adjustable on the C but not on the B.  On the 299b this is useful to send a signal to a powered subwoofer which is how I used it for a short time.  

 

I found that the output from my CD player was a little too hot for the Scott and it improved the sound to attenuate that signal a bit using Harrison Labs RCA attenuators.   

 

To preserve the switch I leave it on with the volume all the way down and use a nice power strip to turn it off and on.  

 

It is awesome with Heritage!  I've used it with Cornwalls, La Scala's, and Heresy's.  

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3 hours ago, tube fanatic said:

 

There are many considerations here:  1) what is your budget? 2) what are you trying to accomplish by going to a tube amp (are you looking for a bright or softer sound, huge sound stage, silky smooth highs, etc.)? 3) which Klipsch speakers are you considering?  4) what are your listening requirements (such as listening level, distance from the speakers when listening, types of music you enjoy, characteristics of your listening room such as size and furnishings, and much more)?

 

Also, when considering vintage equipment, you have to accept that there is no long term factory warranty (that said, Ken at AEA offers a 6 month warranty which isn't much if you plan to keep the amp long term: http://aeaaudio.com/vintage-amp-store/).  As with vintage cars, ongoing repair costs can be part of the package.  

 

...

 

Maynard

 

Thank you to everyone who replied.  This is just what I was hoping to learn!

 

As Maynard said with the reference to vintage cars, which I'm interested in, I suppose that nostalgia factor plays a part, not that I really was listening to tube amps (or anything else or any quality) back in the day.  I had "The Record Eater" for a phonograph, and then somehow it played through a box and into fairly junky speakers. :)

 

I'm not looking for a '48 Tucker, nor a '76 Pacer, but something more middle-of-the-road that will not cost over $1000 or so.  I would also like to have my children hear what it was back when I was their age, and maybe even hear an actual record played on a phonograph!!

 

I am wanting to get the RF7II speakers, an RC64II center speaker, and the R112-SW, which seems like it should be mighty excellent if I can do it.  I'd still need to find a phonograph, but there isn't much point researching that now until I could hear it. 

 

I like the treble much more than the pounding bass, and don't need to listen at 120db, but would like to have the ability to play a bit loud.  It is just in a regular sized living room, although the ceilings are 12 feet.  I'm obviously not the major audiophile who can tell the Wattgate 381 outlet (https://www.parts-express.com/wattgate-381-au-evo-clear-gold-plated-audio-grade-ac-recepticle-outlet--110-4396?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=pla  ) from other outlets, and no, I wasn't ever even tempted to purchase it, but just a regular person who'd like to hear whatever I can hear with something of a relatively high quality.

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Some more questions for you:  If bass isn't of prime concern, why are you considering a sub?  Also, I presume that this is a 2 channel system, so why use a center channel speaker?  

 

As for the nostalgic aspect,  seeing glowing tubes is often sufficient for many in that area!  And, since you may want to crank things up a bit, I question whether 25-30 +/- wpc will be enough for those occasions, even with RF7s.  Another route to consider is going with one of the well regarded Chinese amps like the Yaqin MC-100B.  It has a definite advantage over the Scott in providing more power when used in pentode (ultralinear) mode, and it gives you the flexibility to experience the sound of running the tubes as triodes:
 

https://www.china-hifi-audio.com/en/yaqin-tube-amp-audio-c-14/yaqin-mc-100b-kt88-tube-integrated-amplifier-power-amp-2-mode-p-150?zenid=f8cc97df3cb233fdf30ccf2dadb34e9c

 

You can combine that amp with their tube phono preamp which would allow you to use any turntable that you want, or you can buy one with a built in preamp to make things more simple:
 

https://www.china-hifi-audio.com/en/yaqin-tube-amp-audio-c-14/yaqin-ms-23b-riaa-tube-phono-stage-turntable-moving-magnet-mm-p-1250?zenid=f8cc97df3cb233fdf30ccf2dadb34e9c

 

The options for doing this are, as you may have gathered,  quite limitless.  It's just a matter of deciding how you want to approach your goal.

 

Where are you located?  It's possible that a nearby forum member has a tube amp which he can bring over for a demo before you make a purchase.

 

 

Maynard  

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I have the Yaquin MC 13S tube amp.  It is my second tube amp from Yaquin.  The amp have been trouble free .  and the build quality is excellent.  They have high grade transformer, capacitors from respectable companies like Solen, Siemen, Phillips and Thomson.  The SQ is at the level of an amp costing in the 1-2 K range, IMHO.  People always bring up warranty issues but, the amps are based on true and well received  designs like Dyanco, their circuits are simple and should not pose a problem to be fixed.  These are some of the things that made me choose this over an vintage amp.  I have been thru the costly restoration process.

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8 hours ago, muel said:

 

Information from HHScott.com:

 

 

299(A) Scott_299 tn.jpg (3247 bytes)

Scott_299 (top) tn.jpg (6016 bytes)
Stereo
40-watt
Integrated
Amplifier
17-wpc (RMS)
1958-1960 $200
Scott's first
"Stereomaster" Integrated Amp


See "Editor's Picks"

"Christmas Tree" tri-function neon indicators, unique to 299-series

bias control common to both channels
 
wide "C" case/chassis 

 

11 tubes:

(4) 12AX7
(2) 6BL8(floating paraphase inverter w/AC balance pots)

(4) 7189

(1) 5AR4
299-B Scott_299B tn.jpg (5461 bytes) Stereo
50-watt
Integrated
Amplifier
21-wpc (RMS)
1960-1961 $210

See "Editor's Picks" 

Larger transformers, changed phase splitters

Minor styling changes to knobs, indicators, logo/lettering,  double-H, logo, replaced oval logo.

used wide "C" case/chassis 

 

11 tubes:

(4) 12AX7
(2)6U8/6GH8(floating paraphase inverter w/AC balance pots)

(4) 7189

(1) 5AR4
299-C Scott_299C tn.jpg (5264 bytes) Stereo
72-watt
Integrated
Amplifier
31-wpc (RMS)

or

28-wpc (RMS)
smaller transformer versions
1961-1964 $230
Major upgrade for 299-series adapted from the older LK-72 (kit) 7591-design

Added Front-panel Headphone Jack,
More powerful final section

center channel volume control

some late "C" versions had 233 circuitry and smaller TRA-8-5-4 transformers 

11 tubes:

(4) 12AX7
(2) 6U8 or7199
(Split-load phase inverter)
(4) 7591

(1) 5AR4
299D Scott_299D tn.jpg (4222 bytes) Stereo
80-watt
Integrated
Amplifier
34-wpc (RMS)
1964-1966 $235
See 299C above
See LK-72-B (kit) 

S/N 249780 & up: used 233's output xformers:
TRA-8-5-4


Updated, Extruded front panel styling

Minor service-related improvements

 used wide "C" case/chassis 


11 tubes:

(4) 12AX7
(2) 6U8 or7199
(Split-load phase inverter)
(4) 7591

(1) 5AR4

with those prices in today's dollars..

= $1600 +/- 

https://www.dollartimes.com/calculators/inflation.htm

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23 minutes ago, derrickdj1 said:

I have the Yaquin MC 13S tube amp.  It is my secondd tube amp from Yaquin.  The amp have been trouble free .  and the build quality is excellent.  They have high grade transformer, capacitors from respectable compaines like Solen, Siemen, Phillips and Thomson.  The SQ is at the level of an amp cost in the 1-2 K range, IMHO.  People always bring up warranty issues but, the amps are based on true and well like designs like Dyanco, their circuits are simple and should not pose a problem to be fixed.  These are some of the things that made me choose this over an vintage amp.  I have been thru the costly restoration process.

http://www.stefanopasini.it/Audio_index_Yaquin.htm

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17 hours ago, tube fanatic said:

Not everyone considers the 299C to be so spectacular, and there are many other vintage amps which you may find superior.  Yes, it is a good amp which mates well with many kinds of speakers.  Are there better sounding amps?  Well, that depends on  individual taste.

 

There are many considerations here:  1) what is your budget? 2) what are you trying to accomplish by going to a tube amp (are you looking for a bright or softer sound, huge sound stage, silky smooth highs, etc.)? 3) which Klipsch speakers are you considering?  4) what are your listening requirements (such as listening level, distance from the speakers when listening, types of music you enjoy, characteristics of your listening room such as size and furnishings, and much more)?

 

Also, when considering vintage equipment, you have to accept that there is no long term factory warranty (that said, Ken at AEA offers a 6 month warranty which isn't much if you plan to keep the amp long term: http://aeaaudio.com/vintage-amp-store/).  As with vintage cars, ongoing repair costs can be part of the package.  Switches and controls, which have had an unknown amount of wear, are failure prone.  Anyone who denies this reality isn't being honest with you.  Transformers can fail and can be very costly to replace.  

 

So, depending on all of these factors, there may be dozens of possible choices for you.  Most importantly, it's imperative that you audition a prospective amp in your system before making a decision.  Synergy between the amp and speakers can be critical.  No one can know what your ears will tell you, so taking someone else's perspective can be financially risky.

 

 

Maynard

While I am sure that a Ken from aeaaudio will do a fine job and his 6 month warranty is good, my experience with Craig at novales has been nothing short of incredible. Craig has worked on no fewer than 3 Scott integrated amps for me and for each one he has never disappointed. He truly works magic. He has rebuilt and upgraded a 299 a 299b and a 299d. In addition to those I have owned a 222 and another 299b that he has done the full Monty rebuild on. No 6 month bs warranty- my experience is that Craig stands behind his work for as long as forever. 

If you are thinking of buying a Scott integrated look no further than the master-Craig Otsby to turn into a magical piece. 

Dont let personal vendettas from others here cloud your judgement   Craig delivers. He has in the past and from that experience I know he will in the future. 

 

Just saying 

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14 hours ago, joshnich said:

Dont let personal vendettas from others here cloud your judgement  

 

 

I can't imagine that someone with Ken Leonard's credentials could care less about so called "competitors" (even I'm not in his league.  Well, maybe close!) let alone having any kind of personal vendetta.  In my opinion he certainly has grounds for it considering the manner in which certain guys ran him off of the forum.  His contributions would have been as valuable as those of Mark D.

 

http://aeaaudio.com/legacy-page/

 

Now can we get back to the OP's question and help him to choose an appropriate tube amp?

 

 

Maynard 

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4 hours ago, tube fanatic said:

I can't imagine that someone with Ken Leonard's credentials could care less about so called "competitors" (even I'm not in his league.  Well, maybe close!) let alone having any kind of personal vendetta.  In my opinion he certainly has grounds for it considering the manner in which certain guys ran him off of the forum.  His contributions would have been as valuable as those of Mark D.

 

http://aeaaudio.com/legacy-page/

 

Now can we get back to the OP's question and help him to choose an appropriate tube amp?

 

 

Maynard 

Not sure how you thought that I was referring to AEAUDIO having a personal vendetta with Craig. For the record I was not. 

 

 

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11 hours ago, joshnich said:

Not sure how you thought that I was referring to AEAUDIO having a personal vendetta with Craig. For the record I was not. 

 

 

That was the very obvious conclusion since you quoted my post in yours.  I don't see any negative personal comments in the posts made in this thread.  Quite the contrary, as the comments about others have been of praise.  Perhaps you need to stop being cryptic and come out with what is bothering you and name the individual about whom you are referring!!!  At my age I haven't the time or patience to engage in a game of "20 questions."

 

If you believe Scott amps to be the best for use with Klipsch speakers, that's fine with me.  I can introduce you to guys who have other opinions. After decades in the field I still have no idea why some get so passionate about their beliefs when it comes to tubes.  This is a hobby in which everyone is correct and no one is incorrect.  If a listener's ears find a particular brand most pleasing, then that's the end of the conversation as far as I'm concerned.  There's no way for me to know what they are hearing.  

 

Maynard

 

 

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I hate to state the obvious but I'm fairly sure Josh was not at all being cryptic...he was politely naming you without actually naming you by quoting your post. While you may not come out very often and openly bash me or my business but you do go out of your way to recommend competitors of mine that YOU personally have zero experience doing business with whenever someone recommends me around here.  It's not like it's some secret that you have an attitude when it come to NOS Valves........

 

Josh and everyone else bothered by his axe grinding I'd suggest just ignoring him IMHO he's just not worth the effort. I do appreciate all the praises you folks give to my work and service. Its nice that you give it so freely from your OWN personal experience.  

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