Emile Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Hi, Searched the forum many times, but really did not find any answers ... so; starting a new topic. Think my systems sound pretty good ( Forte I's on Marantz 1060 and Cornwall I's on a Marantz 2252B with another 3 1/2 pair of Klipsch speakers on an AVR) ... but CD's seem to be limited to 16 bit / 44.1 kHz. Currently much "better" files are available (24 bit up to 192 kHZ). Has anyone tried these and found a "major" difference? Yes; can probably download some and try them via my (modest $$) AVR, but my AVR sucks (sorry) compared to my vintage stereo. So; what do I need to try this on vintage equipment and is is worth the money? Cheers, Emile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 This has been discussed many times. Search high resolution or hi-res. Opinions vary, but IMO, the original recording and mastering are more important than the resolution. The most high resolution file of a bad recording of a bad performance will not improve the experience. Higher resolutions are worth the expense and file space if the original recording is worthy. Whatever you think of Michael Jackson as an artist or person, Thriller is an excellent recording. Everyone who has heard Billie Jean through my Pono player can easily distinguish between a high resolution Pono version and the mp3 version downloaded from Amazon. The dynamics and detail leap from the high resolution recording. The mp3 sounds ok until compared to the Pono version. When I buy used records of old performances that are not available on formats other than old vinyl, I clean them with a Reg Williamson Cyastat laced PVA facial, and then rip them to a hi-res FLAC file. Storage is cheap. While hi-res doesn't improve an older vinyl recording, it preserves it in the best way possible. Eventually, pondering whether to worship vinyl or hi-res digital will be as relevant as debating whether to get crank or power windows in your next car. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, DizRotus said: Eventually, pondering whether to worship vinyl or hi-res digital will be as relevant as debating whether to get crank or power windows in your next car. I like this Diz Rotus! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 The quick answer OP is, is that there could very well be a difference... what more than likely the answer is, it's just a larger file size. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbphoto Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Agreed. The quality of the recording, mastering and mixing is much more important than the digital bucket the content is delivered in. I like HDTRACKs for a lot of albums that are important to me. However, if there is a difference versus the CD or iTunes, it's because they are different mixes not because one format is better than the other. Many times, I'll make AAC files from the hi-res HDTRACKs downloads and I can't tell a difference. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emile Posted October 19, 2017 Author Share Posted October 19, 2017 Thanks DizRotus, derrickdj1, and Schu, Thought I researched the history on this, but did not find the results. Sorry! Yes; "garbage in, garbage out." And a "larger" file size does not make it any better if if was "crap" to start out with But ... any "better" recording in hi-fi res? And what equipment would I need? Cheers, Emile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_kc Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 42 minutes ago, Emile said: Hi, Searched the forum many times, but really did not find any answers ... so; starting a new topic. Think my systems sound pretty good ( Forte I's on Marantz 1060 and Cornwall I's on a Marantz 2252B with another 3 1/2 pair of Klipsch speakers on an AVR) ... but CD's seem to be limited to 16 bit / 44.1 kHz. Currently much "better" files are available (24 bit up to 192 kHZ). Has anyone tried these and found a "major" difference? Yes; can probably download some and try them via my (modest $$) AVR, but my AVR sucks (sorry) compared to my vintage stereo. So; what do I need to try this on vintage equipment and is is worth the money? Cheers, Emile What types of music do you listen to? The best sounding recordings that I own are hi-res, such as 24/96 or 24/192 FLAC downloaded from HDTracks, SACD, and Blu-ray (audio and video). (Transcribing a CD to FLAC will NOT magically improve its quality.) IME CDs are also capable of excellent sound quality. (As others have pointed out, garbage in / garbage out - i.e., a hi-res deliverable won't fix a poor quality recording.) Only you can decide if hi-res FLAC downloads, SACD, and Blu-ray sound better to you. IMO, anyone who is serious about hi-fi should experiment for themselves. If you invest in a universal player (such as Oppo), you will be equipped to try all digital formats. FWIW, I've recently been exploring multi-channel SACDs and Blu-ray, and - in the right room - this can offer significant improvement vs. CDs - IMO. (I use an Oppo-205 directly connected to vintage tube amps.) Of course, an issue is whether or not multi-channel SACDs and Blu-ray audio recordings are available in the genre of music you like. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Properly master 5.1 is superb... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emile Posted October 19, 2017 Author Share Posted October 19, 2017 Hi robert_kc, Wide range of music. Jimi Hendrix, (old) Chicago to Keiko Matsui (jazz) to Pavarotti and Beethoven. So; think it is worth the $$'s to get an Oppo/other player to "try this?" Many thanks, Emile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_kc Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Emile said: So; what do I need to try this on vintage equipment ... Cheers, Emile A universal player that has analog outputs, such as the Oppo products. The Oppo UDP-205 has built-in "pre-amp" functionality, including selectable downmixing (e.g., 7.1, 5.1, 2.1, 2.0), bass management (i.e., configurable subwoofer crossover), and volume control. The previous BDP-105 and BDP-95 also have a lot of flexibility, but don't play UHD video. I just posted the following in another thread about using vintage stereo amps in a surround sound system. I prefer tube amps - but this would work with two vintage solid-state stereo amps. ------------------------------- I don't have an AVR or pre-processor. I have no interest in either. Based on 45 years as a hi-fi hobbyist, I’ve concluded that I like tube amps. I use the "pre-amp" functionality that is built into my Oppo UDP-205 universal player (and the 205’s high-quality DACs), and connect to two of my many tube amps in my basement system. (I also have a BDP-105 and BDP-95 in 2.1 systems.) I use the Oppo UDP-205’s 5.1 downmix setting for the surround-sound system in my basement. The Oppo 205’s “rear” connections that are used in a 5.1 configuration are labeled SL (Surround Left), and SR (Surround Right). As part of my investigation, I connected a stereo amp and speakers to the SL (Surround Left) and SR (Surround Right), and heard little rear content (a small amount of “hall reverb”) - and little distinction between L&R - when listening to my multi-channel classical SACDs. I therefore I decided (at least for now) that I’m not missing much by combining the rear channels. Oppo has confirmed that there is no problem combining SL (Surround Left) and SR (Surround Right) via a Y cable. (Yes – I’ve read the “Why not Y” article - however, for many years I’ve used a Y cable to combine stereo RCA line-level into mono, and had no problems.) Because there is so little rear channel content on 5.1 classical SACDs, combining the rear channels sounds OK to me. The left, center, and right speakers are identical (Klipsch RF-7 II). The rear is an earlier version of the same Klipsch speaker (RF-7). Subwoofer: I recently added an SVS SB16-Ultra (i.e., the sealed cabinet model). I also have a Klipsch R-115SW in this system. Following are the tube amps currently in my basement system. (I’ve “tube rolled” these amps in order to voice them for the speakers.) Scott 296 integrated amp, 7581 outputs (6L6GC equivalent) Scott 272 integrated amp, 6CA7 / EL34 Scott 222 integrated amp 7189 / EL84 Fisher KX-200 integrated amp 7591 McIntosh MX110Z tuner/preamp Scott LK150 power amp LK150 Pilot SA-260 power amp EL34 Inspire “Fire Bottle” SE Stereo Tube Amplifier HO power amp (single-ended pentode), currently equipped with 6L6GC (I can connect the power amps direct to the Oppo, or run them through the MX110Z stereo pre-amp.) One 2 channel amp drives the L&R speakers. A second 2 channel amp drives the center and the single rear speaker. I set levels (and tune) by ear. (I am not interested in letting software perform equalization.) Works great. Sounds great. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emile Posted October 19, 2017 Author Share Posted October 19, 2017 Add-on ... Oppo-205 is $1300+ at Crutchfield Worth the $$'s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emile Posted October 19, 2017 Author Share Posted October 19, 2017 Hi robert_kc, Just got your "further" explanation. Awesome; thanks! Going to sleep on this - need another bottle of wine to buy one Thanks, Emile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_kc Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 13 minutes ago, Emile said: Add-on ... Oppo-205 is $1300+ at Crutchfield Worth the $$'s? Everyone's budget is different. Some regard $1300 as expensive, some think that the Oppo UDP-205 is the greatest bargain in hi-fi. You can play any digital audio or video recording with the UDP-205, and it has high quality built-in DACs, pre-amp, and bass management. (You could save a little by buying a used BDP-105 or BDP-95, and play everything except UHD video.) You hi-fi will never sound better than the quality of the recording, and the quality of the source component. (i.e., CD player or universal player). P.S. Don't forget Blu-ray video. Obviously opera, but also high quality Blu-ray video recordings of concerts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emile Posted October 19, 2017 Author Share Posted October 19, 2017 Hi robert_kc, Just got your "further" explanation. Awesome; thanks! Going to sleep on this - need another bottle of wine to buy one Thanks, Emile Add-on ... OK; almost convinced Just truing to "hide" this purchase fro my wife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emile Posted October 19, 2017 Author Share Posted October 19, 2017 Hi robert_kc, Just got your "further" explanation. Awesome; thanks! Going to sleep on this - need another bottle of wine to buy one Thanks, Emile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emile Posted October 19, 2017 Author Share Posted October 19, 2017 Hi robert_kc, One more if you don't mind Saw you have a Pilot amp SA-260. Tried my first attempt into tube amps with a fairly inexpensive Pilot 230, 23W/ch, from my local "record" store, and was not very impressed vs my Marantz 1060. Any suggestions? Thanks, Emile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_kc Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Emile said: Hi robert_kc, One more if you don't mind Saw you have a Pilot amp SA-260. Tried my first attempt into tube amps with a fairly inexpensive Pilot 230, 23W/ch, from my local "record" store, and was not very impressed vs my Marantz 1060. Any suggestions? Thanks, Emile Emile, Now you're opening up 2 hotly debated topics in one thread: Hi-res vs. CD, and solid-state vs. tubes. You can read plenty about tubes vs. solid-state - so I won't address that here. (Where do you live? Perhaps you can listen to other forum members' systems.) I want to expand on something that I said earlier about Blu-ray videos. Today I received in the mail a box set of Blu-ray videos: "Rafael Frühbeck de Burgos Danish NSO”, which is a collection of recent performances captured in high-res audio and video and delivered on 3 Blu-ray discs: Ludwig van Beethoven: Symphonies Nos. 1–9 Joaquín Rodrigo: Concierto de Aranjuez Hector Berlioz: Symphonie fantastique, Op. 14 Richard Strauss: Eine Alpensinfonie (An Alpine Symphony), Op. 64, TrV 233 I see it’s available on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Danish-National-Symphony-Orchestra/dp/B01LX41LCB/ref=tmm_blu_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1508381521&sr=8-1-fkmr0 I’ve only briefly listened/watched today – I will watch the entire collection this winter. My point is that there are many Blu-ray video recordings of classical music, opera, and ballet. If you invest in a universal player, you can enjoy these, in addition to SACDs, CDs, and hi-res music downloads. (And, of course, watch movies.) Earlier this year, I decided to invest in multi-channel after assembling a “proof of concept” system by moving existing speakers into my basement system (where the main speakers must be widely spaced due to room layout). I used my Oppo’s multi-channel analog outputs into my existing tube amps. I listened to the following multi-channel SACD, and was mesmerized. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00RPNPAU0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 After listening to several more multi-channel classical SACDs, plus several multi-channel Blu-ray operas, I concluded that multi-channel can be useful for classical music in an installation where the main LR speakers must be widely spaced. Even if you listen via 2.0 (i.e., stereo vs. multi-channel), I think an Oppo player is a worthwhile investment, because a wider range of recordings will be available to you. (And later you have the flexibility to add a subwoofer, and multi-channel.) And, you’ll be equipped to publish a post about the relative sound quality of the various formats. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 8 hours ago, Emile said: Hi robert_kc, One more if you don't mind Saw you have a Pilot amp SA-260. Tried my first attempt into tube amps with a fairly inexpensive Pilot 230, 23W/ch, from my local "record" store, and was not very impressed vs my Marantz 1060. Any suggestions? Thanks, Emile Good tubes do some things well and good solid state do some things well. You have to spend a lot of money to get a product that crosses the line (body of tubes and grip of SS). You have to choose based on your listening preferences and pockets. The more inexpensive you go (unless you have found a diamond in the rough) the more likely you will be unhappy with either. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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