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rickriley

Klipschorn Update Opinion Requested

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I have a pair of Klipschorns I purchased in 1977. In 1989 I updated the crossovers, drivers and such. Don’t know the specifics but just ordered an update ‘kit’ from Klipsch.

 

Question: I moved, haven’t used them in two years and want to put them into a new, custom built room. I’m an audiophile in ears only and don’t get into the mechanics of using electronics like the new Xbang z1v0059 crossover with the latest Blastophere ST50009s3’s (fictitious of course). The speakers sounded great when I put them in storage two years ago and hoping they will when I hook them up again. BUT, is there an update issued since 1989 that would be worth the cost and effort for my new application?

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Are you speaking of an active crossover versus a passive crossover?

 

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I believe the big changes in the AK4 /AK5 upgrades of the Klipschorns c2004 were much steeper crossover slopes.  I have the AK4s, and think they sound great. 

 

Do you have the non-metalic (fiberglass-like) midrange horn (of 1987)?  And I presume your tweeters are front mounted (a 1983 change).  Those are the other two major changes, I believe. 

There may be a small EQ change or two, such as removing two peaks between 100 and 200 Hz.

 

54 minutes ago, rickriley said:

I have a pair of Klipschorns I purchased in 1977. In 1989 I updated the crossovers, drivers and such. Don’t know the specifics but just ordered an update ‘kit’ from Klipsch.

 

Question: I moved, haven’t used them in two years and want to put them into a new, custom built room. I’m an audiophile in ears only and don’t get into the mechanics of using electronics like the new Xbang z1v0059 crossover with the latest Blastophere ST50009s3’s (fictitious of course). The speakers sounded great when I put them in storage two years ago and hoping they will when I hook them up again. BUT, is there an update issued since 1989 that would be worth the cost and effort for my new application?

 

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2 hours ago, garyrc said:

I believe the big changes in the AK4 /AK5 upgrades of the Klipschorns c2004 were much steeper crossover slopes.  I have the AK4s, and think they sound great. 

 

Do you have the non-metalic (fiberglass-like) midrange horn (of 1987)?  And I presume your tweeters are front mounted (a 1983 change).  Those are the other two major changes, I believe. 

 

I have Type AK-3 and metallic mid-range. The mid-range horns say K 400 in the casting and the  front mounted tweeter is stamped with K77.

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The new horns are K 401.   They may not make an audible difference.   The Klipsch company said they have "slightly lower distortion."   I can't hear a difference in mine, but I didn't run an A-B test.  I thought I could hear a difference at first, but that impression went away.  The non-metallic horns weren't included in the AK4 upgrade kit, because most people who had Klipschorns newer than 1987 already had the new horns. 

 

I'm glad that your tweeter is front mounted.  Is it a round magnet or a square magnet?  

 

You may be inundated with suggestions that you install non-Klipsch upgrades.   Some may be good -- I've never heard any of them.  I went for a Klipsch upgrade, because I know they were trying to improve a few things, many early adopters had given AK4s very positive reviews on this forum and Klipsch had the one-of-a-kind revolving door anechoic chamber with corners to run any test they wanted to run.

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19 hours ago, rickriley said:

I moved, haven’t used them in two years and want to put them into a new, custom built room.

 

What are the room dimensions, what music do you listen to and at what level ?

 

 

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1 hour ago, Wirrunna said:

 

What are the room dimensions, what music do you listen to and at what level ?

 

This is my rough draft of the room. The right third / recording studio is already built. I listen to all kinds of music, vary rarely do I listen to anything that's not forefront in its volume.  In the past my neighbors have been able to identify the artist. This is an outbuilding on four acres now, so that shouldn't be the case, nevertheless, I've soundproofed as much as possible. 

Studio Plan.JPG

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2 minutes ago, Ceptorman said:

I would opt for the  Xbang z1v0059, much better response :D

Somehow I was waiting for that.

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5 minutes ago, rickriley said:

Somehow I was waiting for that.

Just my attempt at humor:D

 

Awesome speakers you have. I'll bet the sound will be just as good as you remember. You definitely came to the right place for Klipsch speaker knowledge. Got any pics?

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11 minutes ago, Ceptorman said:

Just my attempt at humor:D

 

Awesome speakers you have. I'll bet the sound will be just as good as you remember. You definitely came to the right place for Klipsch speaker knowledge. Got any pics?

I made my living off of humor for almost 30 years (radio). Now I do Voiceover. No pictures of the KHorns, but the right third of the space turned out very nice. The media room is what I'm going for next.

Console_2.jpg

Outside_Booth.jpg

WS_Lounge.jpg

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How high is the ceiling?

 

Are you going to have a center channel?  How about some surrounds?    If so, an alternative to an AVR is a pre/pro with a separate several channel power amp, probably with more honest specs than those of an AVR.  Or you could scrabble together some power amps you already have to make the right number of channels.   A new pre/pro (or an AVR, if you must) will give you the most current formats for movies, and allow for alternatives to 2 channel stereo (like PL II, or true multi channel from SACD disks ... mainly orchestral, organ, or Jazz).  Almost anything you get for a center speaker will be less efficient than the Khorns.  To nearly maintain efficiency and timbre to match the Khorns, we buried a Belle Klipsch in the wall and rebuilt the top hat to make room for a K 401 horn (the rear of the moded Belle stuck out beyond the wall, into a bump out).  We installed a 130" true width acoustically transparent screen and put a projector on the rear wall.   For something less elaborate, using a Belle or a La Scala as a TV stand might work.  Either of these are about as efficient as the Khorns in the midrange.  Something like Audyssey in the pre/pro (Marantz and Denon only) will adjust for the different distances from the viewers.

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Since this is a custom built room I'm surprised none of you guys suggested any room treatments.

 

I mention it in general, I don't have specific suggestions.

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1 hour ago, wvu80 said:

Since this is a custom built room I'm surprised none of you guys suggested any room treatments.

 

That won't be forgotten. I’ve worked in studios all my professional life, which is going on 43 years now. I’m well acquainted with room treatment and use combinations of resilient channeling, OC 703 and Tectum. The resilient channeling coupled with Green Glue, keeps the noise in or out and the Tectum with strategically placed OC 703 panels keep it from bouncing around. I use that combination every day for my work environment.

 

I also plan on using a projector and a large screen, although I don’t know which projector or exactly how large a screen yet.

 

As far as gear, I’m fond of Emotiva and have amp and seven channel preamp for center and rear speakers plus a Velodyne sub. Just making the room so it all has a place to go. The icing on the cake is an 1896 Acme pool table that’s been waiting for years to have a home as well.

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I have Klipschorns with the AK-2 crossovers, and I recommend installing fresh fuses in the bass bin input panel. Since you plan to treat your room with Armstrong Tectum diffusion/absorption panels and Owens-Corning 703 rigid fiberglass panels, I think your speakers should sound excellent just the way they are now. I have fabric wrapped 703 panels on my walls, Roxul bass traps and acoustic ceiling tiles. I hope to upgrade my ceiling with Tectum ceiling tiles one day, that would be so nice.

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Very nice room, lots of nice touches, especially the stone veneered wall.

 

 

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7 hours ago, rickriley said:

That won't be forgotten. I’ve worked in studios all my professional life, which is going on 43 years now. I’m well acquainted with room treatment... (Respectful Snip!, just wanted to reference the post)

 

It looks like you have spent many hours detailing and planning the room, and I assure you that you are more sophisticated in understanding room treatments than I am!

 

May I respectfully discuss your room design/layout?  I know that was not part of your original thread but I found your architectural drawing very interesting.

 

It's obvious with the asymmetrical walls you have paid a lot of attention to room acoustics.  What I am wondering about is the home theater/center section.  That seating position is awfully close to the front soundstage, about 10 feet.  Remember that the Khorns will stick out from the front wall about 30" or so.  You might be able to move the couch back a bit even though the pool table is there as that furniture will be low enough to still allow room for the stick to be above it.

 

Related, that Craft room looks to have a lot of unused space.  If it were me I'd straighten out that left wall and move it closer to the left by a couple of feet if possible.  The right wall is already asymmetrical  and with all the room treatments you have planned I don't think you are going to get a lot of bounce off of one straight wall and you could angle it slightly if desired. 

 

That should give you some more space in the Theater room to put a small table for drinks and snacks.  That would also enable you to create an equilateral triangle from the speakers to your main listening position (MLP) and give those Khorns some room to breathe.  I had Khorns at 13' from the MLP and I felt they were not sounding their best, they were a bit too close.

 

Feel free to ignore me if I'm out of line.  Your rooms look great and I'm sure they will work just fine as designed.  Since the room isn't yet built I'm just trying to give some food for thought.

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3 hours ago, wvu80 said:

May I respectfully discuss your room design/layout?  I know that was not part of your original thread but I found your architectural drawing very interesting...

 

...Feel free to ignore me if I'm out of line.  Your rooms look great and I'm sure they will work just fine as designed.  Since the room isn't yet built I'm just trying to give some food for thought.

 

Your opinion / suggestions are very much appreciated. To address your concerns, often design is a result of function mitigated with politics. We moved to this home about three years ago. It’s on four acres with two outbuildings.  I live with three women. My wife and two daughters. The wife and daughters claimed one of the outbuildings for pets, which now include about 60+ chickens, all named, a mini-horse named dumpling, a sheep named rose and a peacock named Peabody.

 

The other outbuilding I claimed for myself, at least in design. Doing voiceover for a living, the outbuilding was more than a blessing. Being about 100 feet away from the house and even further from the neighbors, with not a minor investment, it became a studio that is a daily pleasure to work in. I also wanted a media room, which is the next project. The left third of the building came about as my wife noted, ‘Well, if you get a studio and a media room, don’t you think I should get a craft room?’ It didn’t matter what I ‘thought’, it was then divided in EQUAL thirds.

 

Please note, that she DESERVES a craft room. She sheers the sheep, dye’s the wool, spins the yarn and knits, well, a number of things. She also has three sewing machines and clothes my daughters as well as just making gifts and such. In fact, we live just outside of Portland, Oregon, and this year one of her friends encouraged her to enter some of her projects in the County Fair. She entered eight. Won six first place blue ribbons and two third place white ribbons. She’s good at what she does. Right now she has a room upstairs in the house and is waiting for her craft room. To say that craft room has a lot of unused space may just get you an unsolicited phone call in order to reassess your opinion. Or as she says, ‘Would you please call him and give him a piece of my mind’. So bottom line, there will be NO unused space and that wall will not move an inch in any direction that would cause that space to diminish.

 

That’s my story and I have no choice but to stick to it. And again, thanks for your input!

 

And FYI, this is a 'before' picture as the previous owner was moving out. 

Garage_RS.jpg

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I like your design and I did similarly in a basement I finished.  Can you straighten the angled wall with the craft room?  You'll get fewer standing waves in the "listening" portion of the room.  A K-horn only needs 4 feet from the corner, go 6 for over-kill. 

 

I heard an AK-4 K-horn in Indy several years ago.  I was impressed.  Since I have La Scalas, I paid more attention to the AL-4 La Scala.  It sounded good and that crossover is similar the the AK-4.  Now I believe they are up to an AK-5 and sadly I know little about it.  The big differences between the older crossovers and the -4/-5 variants is the crossover slopes are steeper in the new ones, but there is a difference in the eq.   

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So the KHorns will be flanking the "screen" in the middle room? Not in the "studio"? Just curious. There are many modifications that can be done to improve(MHO) the midrange and tweeter section of the K. Just snoop around on this forum you'll find them.

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