yepimonfire Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Compared to the Reference II series, the new horns have incredibly even, wide, off axis dispersion, almost as if it were design for constant directivity, anyone have any details on the design? This is off axis measurements taken myself, as far out as 45 degrees, the response is remarkably flat out to 14khz. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted October 25, 2017 Moderators Share Posted October 25, 2017 Sorry if this is a dumb question but what does this mean in layman's terms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoboKlipsch Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 The new ones are not a huge change they mostly damped the tweeter horns i do not think the geometry was hugely improved if you look at the specs of most klipsch you will see they describe the horns as say 90 x 60, and your graph backs that up. Within that range the frequencies covered by the horn have what is close to constant directivity -- the whole area within the angle has an almost identical response. below the crossover where the woofer is involved it becomes much harder to have constant directivity....because frequencies much above 500hz become directonal without a horn or waveguide so careful design is required to transition between the speakers and often the tweeter must be close to the woofer in order to make this work. so the tweeter is most definitely constant and in some cases the woofer and crossover can be designed to achieve this too. your graph is why so many people like klipsch. youthman jbl and other designers looked at horn and woofer speaker designs that provide an almost constant and consistent response within a defined angle, often 90 degrees horizontally and say 60 degrees vertically. this design controls the output and reduces reflections especially from ceilings. the goal is for every seat to get an identical response and klipsch by the very nature of its purpose and design comes close to constant directivity. its much like how a theater is designed to get similar response from each seat by using lots of speakers.....this version is more for smaller rooms where you achieve a similar goal but dont need multiple speakers for each channel to achieve it. compare a klipsch to a non horn loaded speaker and move off axis....the sound degrades much more quickly than the klipsch. this is the genius of klipsch designs and specifically their tractrix horns andis partof the concept on constant directivity. i have a set of htm12s with 15" waveguides (horns) specifically to achieve this. for comparison a rf7 has a 10" horn and a rf52 has a 5" horn. the shape of the horn is extremely well researched for decades and thats the basics of waveguides and directivit. i believe jbl pioneered constant directivity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 The new horns have nearly constant directivity performance. The older MR and HF horns are exponential horns and have collapsing polars. The sound changes as one moves about the room with those. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 On 10/25/2017 at 6:18 AM, yepimonfire said: Compared to the Reference II series, the new horns have incredibly even, wide, off axis dispersion, almost as if it were design for constant directivity, anyone have any details on the design? This is off axis measurements taken myself, as far out as 45 degrees, the response is remarkably flat out to 14khz. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk It would be wonderful to document a reference.... What horn to what horn since I don't see a legend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Do the new horns improve imaging? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoboKlipsch Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 i think the highs are clearer....sparkly lol ☺ measuring response they blow right through 20k very impressive... not that i can hear it anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Don Keele Jr. is the man responsible for the CD horn which he developed while working for EV then he designed the CD horns for Altec (and had EV make them for Altec)after which Don went to JBL and designed their CD horns and won an Oscar for his work. Though Don has done a lot of work including a short stint working for Paul W. Klipsch he still does consulting work for JBL along with work of his own. http://www.xlrtechs.com/dbkeele.com/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 On 10/25/2017 at 12:13 PM, RoboKlipsch said: compare a klipsch to a non horn loaded speaker and move off axis....the sound degrades much more quickly than the klipsch. this is the genius of klipsch designs and specifically their tractrix horns andis partof the concept on constant directivity. i have a set of htm12s with 15" waveguides (horns) specifically to achieve this. You say that like everyone knows what those are! http://www.diysoundgroup.com/home-theater-monitors/ht-12-kit.html I forgive you because I'm jealous, I have the Fusion 10 Pure, 12" SEOS and 10" Eminence woofs. I bet those HTM 12's are sweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoboKlipsch Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 We had a gtg at eng399s place recently. at the meet we had htm10s htm12s 1099s titan xls a prototype titan along with the vbss subs, nearfields and 21s. that doesnt count all the 2 channel stuff ☺ mic calibration was questioned but in room measurements of his dedicated theater including nearfield were at 140db....regardless of if it was 120 or more....one guy with a mic measured the nearfield bass as 40db -- 40db boost lol. gunshots may have been louder and more percussive than real ones. ddj was there too we had a great time. eng had upgraded his nearfield from infinities (my signature contains half) to the legacies (also in my signature)....he has six behind his back row at 2 inches away....just enough for excursion. the improvement in sharpening gunshots was amazing. you arent missing much with 12 seos. same idea i think a very big room appreciates a huge waveguide but even small rooms benefit a lot. any work well imo and klipsch is similar maybe not quite the same but close. theres no downside to the huge waveguide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 The waveguide is just another variant of horn design. The ideal of using a waveguide is to control the pattern of radiation first and not efficiency. All horns have some pattern control and acoustic loading to help them with efficiency. The difference between this and many Klipsch offering is small. Those subs behind the seat are VNF subs for increased tactile response and pressure effect and t. WOW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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