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Educate me: Forte II upgrades/modifications


bkevind

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First, I'm sure this is a topic that has been beat to death and is considered common knowledge on the forums - but in my searches so far I'm not quite gleaning the understanding I'm looking for.   So with that, please forgive me my ignorance and asking "those annoying newb questions"

 

Let's leave the debate of "should I upgrade or not" to a different thread

 

So far what I think I know:

Crites:

-upgraded drivers/tweeters

-crossover replacement (but not an "upgrade" in xo design?)

 

ALK Engineering:

-Upgraded drivers/tweeters

-Crossover upgrades

 

DeanG:

-Crossover replacement / upgrades (?)

 

I understand a xo replacement with new/improved parts can/will sound different/better because aging caps degrade in quality (higher resistance / ESR).  The Forte II's I just picked up are approaching 30 years old, so at the least I'm considering going with something like the Crites xo replacements.

 

I've also seen a variety of things like, felt discs, ping pong balls etc, and lifting the Fortes.  Cabinet bracing, gluing all seams to seal the box, weighting the passive radiator for improved bass, etc.

 

I'd probably go for gluing seams, maybe some bracing, reducing horn resonance with some material, and of course xo, possibly drivers if need be later on. 

 

Thanks for your time and thoughts.

 

-Kevin

 

 

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An upgrade in sound will always be an opinion. That being said, I would minimum have the crossovers recapped or buy new crossovers from Bob Crites. He can recap your original crossovers, or he makes complete replacements using higher quality parts. At the same time, I would replace the tweeter diaphragms with Bob Crites titanium tweeter diaphragms. That should be more than enough to put a smile on your face. Room placement, audio gear driving them, etc will all affect the listening experience. I've heard about changing the weight in the passive radiators to get more bass, but I don't know enough about it to comment more. Good luck.

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Well, really, in posting the above, you are asking "should I....?"  Otherwise, you would have done your research, made your decision, and done it.  Yes?  But I know you're also looking for info....

 

IMHO, Crossovers or cap change-out for sure.  But before anything else, consider your room config, speaker placement (they are a bit sensitive to it) , furniture, windows, doors, your source equipment and material, amplifier/preamp/AVR, etc, etc.  I think gluing the internal seams with construction adhesive is a good idea, I do it myself.  I do not lift speakers (other than Heresy's).  I believe you lose bass response.

 

Personally, if you are going to do the Crites crossovers, I would also do the Crites titanium tweeter diaphragms.  

 

All of the other things you mentioned are minor tweaks, after you've done the crossovers and configured your listening space as best you can.  Enjoy.

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Thanks all.

 

I've pretty much decided on the new Crites xo at a minimum, and there seems to be consensus on the Crites tites.

 

I guess the reason for this thread is that it is not clear the effect of the difference in methodolgy (between the different options, pros cons of those blah blah), and if there was a clear "man you have to hear these Alks..." sort of thing.  I read a lot of threads that trusty google pointed me to, and ultimately came away less informed.  That in itself informed me that I should just do the basics and enjoy what I have.

 

Forums searches and even google searches of forums often leaves much to be desired for subjects that are themselves not black and white.  I've been on both sides of that coin many times for many years.  "Search noob!" is always the answer, but it rarely provides any good answers on subjects like this IMO.  

 

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Check out the klipsch forum over at audioKarma. There are several Forte specific threads covering modifications. 

 

When I modified a pair, I have since sold, I did the Crites X-Overs, Ti tweeter diaphragms, Ti midrange diaphragms, and Crites bandpass filters for the new mids.  I was fortunate enough to have the opportunity to compare my modified Forte IIs with stock Forte IIs. The difference in sound was dramatic. I suspect the stock Forte IIs needed new X-Overs. I'd do that before anything else. 

 

Mark

 

 

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49 minutes ago, cincymat said:

Check out the klipsch forum over at audioKarma. There are several Forte specific threads covering modifications. 

 

When I modified a pair, I have since sold, I did the Crites X-Overs, Ti tweeter diaphragms, Ti midrange diaphragms, and Crites bandpass filters for the new mids.  I was fortunate enough to have the opportunity to compare my modified Forte IIs with stock Forte IIs. The difference in sound was dramatic. I suspect the stock Forte IIs needed new X-Overs. I'd do that before anything else. 

 

Mark

 

 

Thank you Mark.  I did catch a lot of info from audioKarma.  That sounds like the proper route for me.  This thread helped crystallize that for me.  I'll start with crites xo then maybe go with the rest of the goodies later.

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1 hour ago, bkevind said:

And done.  Bob Crites new xo's and ti tweeters ordered.  :D

 

Thanks Bob!  Seems like a real nice guy.

I'd not install the Ti tweeters until you've listened to the Forte IIs with the new X-Overs for a little while. That way you can discern the difference each change makes. 

 

And you're right, Bob is a really nice guy.

 

Mark

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3 minutes ago, cincymat said:

I'd not install the Ti tweeters until you've listened to the Forte IIs with the new X-Overs for a little while. That way you can discern the difference each change makes. 

 

And you're right, Bob is a really nice guy.

 

Mark

Good advice, thank you.  I want spend a bit more time with the stock speakers, since I've only had them for a day now.  The age alone justifies x-over replacement, but I'll wait a bit if I can...will be hard once I have them in my hands :)

 

Then I will definitely give it some time before replacing the tweeters. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, bkevind said:

Good advice, thank you.  I want spend a bit more time with the stock speakers, since I've only had them for a day now.  The age alone justifies x-over replacement, but I'll wait a bit if I can...will be hard once I have them in my hands :)

 

Then I will definitely give it some time before replacing the tweeters. 

 

 

Yeah, I know. I'm the same way. 

 

Good Luck,

 

Mark

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More extension and better dynamics - a stronger sense of immediacy, with the tradeoff being a lack of warmth and authenticity to the sound - realism is exchanged for sterility.   

 

Has anyone ever compared NEW phenolic diaphragms to the titanium?

 

Still prefer the sound with Jensen paper in oil capacitors. 

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5 hours ago, jimjimbo said:

Well, really, in posting the above, you are asking "should I....?"  Otherwise, you would have done your research, made your decision, and done it.  Yes?  But I know you're also looking for info....

 

IMHO, Crossovers or cap change-out for sure.  But before anything else, consider your room config, speaker placement (they are a bit sensitive to it) , furniture, windows, doors, your source equipment and material, amplifier/preamp/AVR, etc, etc.  I think gluing the internal seams with construction adhesive is a good idea, I do it myself.  I do not lift speakers (other than Heresy's).  I believe you lose bass response.

 

Personally, if you are going to do the Crites crossovers, I would also do the Crites titanium tweeter diaphragms.  

 

All of the other things you mentioned are minor tweaks, after you've done the crossovers and configured your listening space as best you can.  Enjoy.

I have done several recaps/upgrades and a few of Bobs crossovers......

This statement says it all.

George

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Just replaced my (Forte) tweeter diaphragms with the Crites Ti ones. Did them "one-by-one" to compare them with the "old" ones. MAJOR difference! Believe it pulls in the higher harmonics (from the fundamental notes) resulting in a much clearer sound. (But ... also could have been because my tweeters were "dying" ... old ones measured 12 ohms vs new ones at 8 ohms.)

 

Getting ready to try new Crites crossovers ... have not ordered them yet as they are "not cheap" (and heard NO difference when I replaced them on my Cornwall's. :(

 

 bkevind ; let us know if you hear a (substantial) difference :)

 

Thanks, Emile

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6 hours ago, bkevind said:

ignorance and asking "those annoying newb questions"

Yeah; know what you mean :)  Joined "after" you did and have been hesitant to post some questions :( But response to even my "stupid" questions/remarks has been very positive :) 

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What a timely re-incarnation of (another) worthwhile Klipsch project.

 

I too am pondering the route to take with my walnut Forte ii’s.

 

This is the third pair I have had the pleasure of auditioning.

 

I sold the first pair, un-modified/refreshed, prior to REALLY digging into THIS forum. They were painted black by the original owner and I never really gave them a chance as I was looking for house-shaking performance at low volume. Almost, but not quite what my naive ear was expecting. 

 

The second pair came with Crites titanium tweeter diaphragms and were oak. They seemed noticeably more appealing sonically than the first pair and I had every intention of keeping them. UNTIL I lucked into my first pair of Cornwalls! Enough said.

 

This third pair matches my walnut Cornwall iis. Never say never, but I expect they will be staying. 

 

The Forte ii goes lower, tighter than any other speaker I have and fits anywhere, attractively.

 

Bob’s titanium diaphragms are a no-brainer at this point. Having heard them, they are conspicous in their absence. 

 

Re-sealing the driver gaskets is not optional.

 

Bracing and gluing the cabinet seams stands to reason.

 

It is the crossover options that have me in a wonderland of possibilities.

 

I will start with new caps on the original crossovers and PRAY it stops there!

 

One question that keeps nagging me...

 

Would a tractrix tweeter not be the preferred route in the Forte ii. Why was it not used originally? OK - two questions.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Emile said:

Yeah; know what you mean :)  Joined "after" you did and have been hesitant to post some questions :( But response to even my "stupid" questions/remarks has been very positive :) 

Pretty sure we were all noobs once upon a time.  All questions afford the opportunity to learn.

 

Mark

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1 hour ago, Emile said:

Just replaced my (Forte) tweeter diaphragms with the Crites Ti ones. Did them "one-by-one" to compare them with the "old" ones. MAJOR difference! Believe it pulls in the higher harmonics (from the fundamental notes) resulting in a much clearer sound. (But ... also could have been because my tweeters were "dying" ... old ones measured 12 ohms vs new ones at 8 ohms.)

 

Getting ready to try new Crites crossovers ... have not ordered them yet as they are "not cheap" (and heard NO difference when I replaced them on my Cornwall's. :(

 

 bkevind ; let us know if you hear a (substantial) difference :)

 

Thanks, Emile

 

Thanks for the feedback.  Regarding the crossovers, I don't expect to hear much of a difference, unless my current caps are that far gone.  In my mind, it is replacing consumable parts with improved consumable parts that will likely outlive me.  

 

1 hour ago, Emile said:

Yeah; know what you mean :)  Joined "after" you did and have been hesitant to post some questions :( But response to even my "stupid" questions/remarks has been very positive :) 

 

Hah yeah.  It's the way of the 'net.  The thing is, when you've been steeped in something for quite a while, certain things seem rather self-evident.  And you know you've seen the topic answered/discussed time and again, so it's there in the forum for discovery (in theory).   I'm appreciative of the positive response as well, with seemingly a lack of any animosity.   

 

In spite of my excellent Google-fu, information was leaning towards disparate and inconclusive.

 

Some of this disparate energy I gathered from Alk's website, who pulls no punches with their perspective of things :D

 

Thanks to you forum vets for not roasting this noob on an open fire.

 

 

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