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Kalifornian

JBL 2446H vs Selenium D4400ti

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Looking at upgrading the mid driver on my Belle Klipsch. Looking at the JBL 2446h and the Selenium. Price difference is drastic at 840 per on the JBL vs 300 per for the Selenium. Its going in a volti tractrix horn. Going to get the extreme slope xovers as well. My technical knowledge is moderate and Im trying to see what qualifies the major price difference....

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Ive attached response curves. The left is the JBL the right is the Selenium.  The Selenium looks smoother?

20171106_141551-1239x1361.jpg

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The response curves do appear different with as you say the one smoother per chart. One could easily deduce the smoother is the better yet, someone will be along in the due course of time. Interesting of course the price difference as well,

Yet,  I am no help.:emotion-21:

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2 minutes ago, Kalifornian said:

Somewhat reinforces my opinion if nothing else. Thanks :)

The one less smooth may be preferable in some instances so, not a jumper to conclusions yet. Matter of someone else chiming in with the experience per these 2 units.Thanks

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As far as smoothness goes it is strongly impacted by curves "in the nude" or smoothed curves. In my setup I can diplay cuves au naturel warts and all. smoothing over 1/12 octave all the way to smoothing to running averages over octave windows.

 

The overall response is then dependent on which horn that is used with the driver.

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Curves & specs don't always tell the full story.....let your ears decide.

There's a reason that JBL is more expensive than other drivers. This may account for the reason they & another similar brand was used in recording studios & PA systems world wide & why there is a resurgence in so called older technology. You can't go past good old fashioned engineering principles. Not everything that is new is better. 

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" The Selenium looks smoother? :

 

Different horn.

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This sort of data requires some care in interpretation.

 

Different horns cause different effects.  The top-most graphs show response on the respective horns and the horns typically cause their own ripples.  Further, they can goose up on axis response.  This may be arguably accurate but the extra effects of the horns mask the actual performance of the driver(s).  We don't have data on the effects of the horns.  Here each manufacturer has used its own horn.  Fair enough,but they are likely not identical in effects.

 

The only way to remove the effect of the horn is to run the test on a plane wave tube.  The data show that only for the JBL.  Plane wave tube response is a very accurate and  is the only way give a fair measure of the driver itself.

 

Another issue is whether the curve has been altered by, typically, 1/3 octave smoothing.  Actually, the more ragged the curve, the less likely you're looking at smoothing.  We can't tell but the graphs of the two both look pretty ragged to me at least in some ranges.  No smoothing seems likely in these graphs.

 

The most salient reason for differences in apparent  "smoothness"  (visually) is in the left axis of the two graphs and not some other unknowns mentioned above.   If I'm reading this correctly: The major divisions in the left graph is 10 dB. The major divisions in the right graph is 20 dB.  No unknowns in this issue.

 

It does mean that ripples in the JBL (left) are scaled up as compared to the  rippless in the Selenium on the right. 

 

I'll guess that if presented with the same "scale" of dB they'd be pretty close to each other.

 

WMcD

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I have used some Selenium, I prefer EV, Faital, and B&C over Selenium (Faital and B&C have been my favorites out of those).  If I was going to purchase JBL's I would go used, maybe even blown if they can be had cheap and throw some Truexten beryllium diaphragms in them.

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i have just upgraded several speakers.    New drivers, liners and crossovers.     Did this in stages one speaker at a time so I could constantly compare the before and after.     I found the mid driver changes really did not change the sound [ to my old ears ] very much.   The tweeter change was a bit more noticeable  but modest.  In fact the tweeter change introduced a brightness I really did not like much.  By this time I was beginning to think I was wasting my money.

 

I then brought in ALK extreme  crossovers and WOW !      I would seriously suggest the " G "   version sold by Crites is probably better than your ears.    Save your $.    The 77 tweeter has very limited highs but most people like the sound.    Again I suggest you do it one speaker at a time so you can really know what makes an improvement.  [To your ears since I suspect you will be the prime listener. ]    $ do not always equate with value.

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Sorry,  I modified a set of TSCM, a set of older surrounds, an old RC3  and a pro series PA speakers.     To my ears all improved some but the crossover change in the TSCMs was spectacular

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One more thing.    Even supposed identical speakers often sound different.    I run all the way around my  9.1 system with the white noise from my Marantz.    When I started I had 4 different sounds.   I am building a center to get the same sound and  I have tested and now rejected 4 different RS52ii surround speakers because they sound so different.     I have finally got two that sound similar to each other and similar to my set of RS62ii .    I still have a set of RB81 that do not sound much alike.    Anyone want to exchange an RB81ii   so that I can have two that sound alike?     

 

PS.   There so many reasons supposedly identical speakers do not sound alike that I will leave that discussion to others.    The white noise test really is very revealing.

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19 hours ago, djk said:

" The Selenium looks smoother? :

 

Different horn.

Yep apples and oranges. Or least a fuji to a granny smith:)

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22 minutes ago, 1HOHDude said:

The 77 tweeter has very limited highs but most people like the sound. 

I do, never had any complaints,  I do have a pair of the new tweeter offerings from Fastlane or ALK, I have not tried them, just waiting for time and another amp.

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Ok so I have crites ct125 tweeter, the critrs a4500 xover, and the new 55k or whatever the mid driver crites has a replacement now (and it sounds good). But with the 2" horn I feel like I need a 2" driver. Sounds like go with a reasonable price 2" driver and invest in the extreme slope xovers from cover,

 

Upgrade bug, I know, but this is the support group right??

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