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Should I get a second R-12SW or get one SVS SB-1000?


91RS
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1 hour ago, nitrofan said:

No Christmas tree is going to make any of my audio stuff move. Gotta get your priorities straight

 

I’m basically hoping I can figure out how to make it work where she’ll be “ok” with it. Not sure if I’d actually keep both but I should be able to sell one or both and get my money back at worst. I’m not driving all over creation on my day off for nothing if I go. 

 

I’m not sure how thrilled I am with the PC-2000. I haven’t watched a full movie but some scenes I watched seemed good compared to the 12SW but others seemed lacking and music was definitely lacking (but that’s not really the priority) and I have the volume on it almost all the way up.

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11 hours ago, 91RS said:

I’m not sure how thrilled I am with the PC-2000. I haven’t watched a full movie but some scenes I watched seemed good compared to the 12SW but others seemed lacking and music was definitely lacking (but that’s not really the priority) and I have the volume on it almost all the way up.

If you're using any kind of room eq such as audyssey the output volume of your subwoofer should be set to halfway at most before running the room eq.  If you have your sub's output volume cranked way up the room eq will significantly reduce the output signal to the subwoofer.

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I have a Yamaha TSR-7810 receiver so I used YPAO for room correction.  I'm wanting to say that I did have it set half-way the first time I ran it but I couldn't even heard it after so that's when I turned it all the way up and I'm pretty sure it was still all the way up when I ran YPAO the second time after I moved the sub.  YPAO does usually give an error about the sub volume being too high but I've always told it to save anyway and then went into the settings manually and changed it back from -10db back to +2db.  I can't even hear the sub when I have the volume on it set to where the YPAO doesn't have a fit about it.

 

I've ended up passing on the two 115SW's.  The guy didn't make me feel warm and fuzzy.  The main thing was he said in the e-mail that they played like new when I asked him how old they were but when I talked to him on the phone yesterday before I was planning on going to see/get them, he said one had an issue with the "power switch" where it would turn off after playing for a bit.  He wouldn't budge on the price enough to accommodate having to buy an amplifier for one.

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50 minutes ago, 91RS said:

I have a Yamaha TSR-7810 receiver so I used YPAO for room correction.  I'm wanting to say that I did have it set half-way the first time I ran it but I couldn't even heard it after so that's when I turned it all the way up and I'm pretty sure it was still all the way up when I ran YPAO the second time after I moved the sub.  YPAO does usually give an error about the sub volume being too high but I've always told it to save anyway and then went into the settings manually and changed it back from -10db back to +2db.  I can't even hear the sub when I have the volume on it set to where the YPAO doesn't have a fit about it.

 

I've ended up passing on the two 115SW's.  The guy didn't make me feel warm and fuzzy.  The main thing was he said in the e-mail that they played like new when I asked him how old they were but when I talked to him on the phone yesterday before I was planning on going to see/get them, he said one had an issue with the "power switch" where it would turn off after playing for a bit.  He wouldn't budge on the price enough to accommodate having to buy an amplifier for one.

This is the "tell" that setup did not go right.  Some avrs have issues with providing enough signal to the sub to properly drive it.  Having to turn the gain all the way up in a room less than massive says the gain is not high enough from the avr.  Dont judge it until you get it setup properly and can judge what you really have.

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40 minutes ago, RoboKlipsch said:

This is the "tell" that setup did not go right.  Some avrs have issues with providing enough signal to the sub to properly drive it.  Having to turn the gain all the way up in a room less than massive says the gain is not high enough from the avr.  Dont judge it until you get it setup properly and can judge what you really have.

 

so, is there a way to resolve this issue?   so many things I know little about, and subs is one of those areas.   thanks.

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Are you saying that there might be more to the room setup than what I can see in the level's menu of the manual speaker setup or just strictly that the receiver isn't putting out enough voltage period?  I looked at the old Klipsch R-12SW last night when I set it back up on the other side of the room from the SVS to see how it would sound when we watched a movie and I didn't realize that I actually had the gain on it set maybe just above 1/4 not half way like I thought I did.  Maybe just a difference in the amplifiers and the Klipsch amp likes what the receiver puts out more than the SVS?  Either way, I'll try turning the volume knob down on the SVS and disconnect the old sub again and run the setup again tonight to see if it makes any difference.

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I bought the SVS "used - like new" on Amazon from IQ Home Entertainment who is an SVS authorized dealer.  I was told it was a return.  Other than the box looking like it had been through hell they probably could have said it was new and no one would have been the wiser.  I don't have the 45 day trial from SVS but I could return it to IQ for a full refund, I just have to pay return shipping.

 

I ran the YPAO last night with the volume on the SVS either at half way and turn off the old 12SW and the receiver set it at +2 db.  I raised it to +8 db since y'all were thinking the receiver might not be putting out enough voltage for it.  I didn't get a chance to really watch anything to test but I played the Dolby Experience test videos and it sounded about the same as it did before with the volume turned all the way up.  I got the Christmas tree down and set it up to show that it and my speakers can co-exist... 

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if it  set it to 2db it sounds like it its getting signal. the signal either is strong enough or not....turning it up after just boosts the sub which is ok but not necessary for calibration.

 

you need to run some test tones off youtube.

 

try subwoofer test and look for a few and see what they do

dont crank them up at first see what they do then go up as needed.

theres a blue screen one that tests from 100 down to 5hz which is a good ez one.

the splash screen has 60hz on it.

 

if the tones are consistent and loud then the issue is your ears!  

if not theres more investigating to do.

 

when using a "real" sub that is calibrated it can seem disappointing because the one note boom of a sub like a 12sw is powerful on certain notes....without that...because the svs has a smoother response....it can seem weak.

 

this should be ez.  you may not be used to a good sub calibrated or the sub may not work right

you need to use it more before judging imo

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That's why I haven't returned it yet and why I was asking about having to turn the volume all the way up on the SVS because I didn't feel like that was right.  The main reason I was considering returning it was because I thought I was going to get those two used Klipsch 115SW's for $800 (actually I was hoping to offer him less with cash and hope he'd bite) and two of those at the same time for only a little more than I paid for the SVS was a deal I couldn't resist. But the guy didn't make me feel warm and fuzzy and it seemed one of them had an amplifier problem he didn't initially disclose (luckily for me he did disclose it before I drove all the way to his house).

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The sub is set to LFE and the receiver doesn't let me do a specific crossover setting for it, the only adjustment it has is to reverse the phase and the parametric eq and I haven't attempted to make any adjustments there because I don't know how yet.

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I read the owner's manual and if I understand it correctly, the crossover for the subwoofer is automatic based on where the crossover is set for the other speakers when "small" speakers are selected.  The YPAO selects "large" for all of my speakers based on it's measurement but I changed them all to "small" as I've read on this forum.  All of the speakers are set to 80Hz except the fronts (RF-82 II) which I set to 60Hz.  

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The crossover on the sub is set to LFE.  Would the LFE+Main be on the subwoofer or in the receiver settings?  I don't see anything like that on either.

 

I played the "blue screen" subwoofer test video on YouTube that RoboKlipsch mentioned and it does sound smooth in the transitions and shakes the house at 20Hz.  We've only watched the one movie with it so far and I wish now I hadn't set the 12SW back up and used it too but I think the SVS sounds fine for TV or movies as far as I can tell so far but listening to music it is very lacking in volume still.  One in particular is Joe Satriani - One Robot's Dream, the bass is pretty hot on that track and it is nowhere near enough coming from the SVS but if I switch the 12SW on it is shaking the walls with the gain at 1/4.  I also get more bass out of the PSI 10" in a crappy sealed box in my car on this track.  Something has to be wrong somewhere.  After I played the test video on YouTube, I ended up on some "best bass songs" videos that were all rap, dubstep type stuff (not my cup of tea) but it sounded far from adequate for that type of music but this guy seemed pretty pleased listening to that type of music in this review: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/2035041-svs-pc-2000-subwoofer-official-avs-forum-review.html .

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2 hours ago, 91RS said:

The crossover on the sub is set to LFE.  Would the LFE+Main be on the subwoofer or in the receiver settings?  I don't see anything like that on either.

The LFE+Main or similar would be in the receiver's settings.

 

Have you tried adjusting the phase control on the sub?

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I did adjust the phase control to 180* when I set the 12SW back up to match.  I don't know if it was because the volume isn't there but it was actually hard to tell there was a time alignment issue when listing to just music with the SVS because there was an obvious time alignment issue with the Klipsch when I first got it.  I haven't tried adjusting it in between 0* and 180* since I turned the Klipsch back off yesterday.

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14 hours ago, 91RS said:

The crossover on the sub is set to LFE.  Would the LFE+Main be on the subwoofer or in the receiver settings?  I don't see anything like that on either.

 

I played the "blue screen" subwoofer test video on YouTube that RoboKlipsch mentioned and it does sound smooth in the transitions and shakes the house at 20Hz.  We've only watched the one movie with it so far and I wish now I hadn't set the 12SW back up and used it too but I think the SVS sounds fine for TV or movies as far as I can tell so far but listening to music it is very lacking in volume still.  One in particular is Joe Satriani - One Robot's Dream, the bass is pretty hot on that track and it is nowhere near enough coming from the SVS but if I switch the 12SW on it is shaking the walls with the gain at 1/4.  I also get more bass out of the PSI 10" in a crappy sealed box in my car on this track.  Something has to be wrong somewhere.  After I played the test video on YouTube, I ended up on some "best bass songs" videos that were all rap, dubstep type stuff (not my cup of tea) but it sounded far from adequate for that type of music but this guy seemed pretty pleased listening to that type of music in this review: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/2035041-svs-pc-2000-subwoofer-official-avs-forum-review.html .

i am beginning to believe its your ears.  ive been down this road

an average sub like the 10sw or 12sw has a huge bump at 50hz which is what you are liking....i had a 10sw and remember

the svs has  built in dsp to make most rooms flat to at least 20hz

getting used to a real sub takes time

your issue is common...we all have this

 

there is only something called "reference" with regards to movies and theater

even though the last 10 to 20 years has better recordings....read the sentence above this again

there is no music reference.  

 

so some newer recordings may sound amazing

some of your favorites may sound weak with reference calibration

 

the best way to deal is to turn up the subwoofer in the avr.  this boosts the whole sub and not just say 50hz.

i love satriani but much of it was recorded long ago.

 

a typical boost to subs with music is say 6db.  but theres no right or wrong.

 

try the music you like adjusting the sub as mentioned above.  for movies try reference for a while and if you think its weak boost it up.

you will be surprised at reference how many basic tv programs have huge bass

even news shows have it

 

give it some timr.  you ear is trained to like music produced by subs everybody has had for 30yrs

youve graduated and it takes time to adjust.  

 

if this doesnt work sure you  an turn the 12sw on for music but i wouldnt.  

placement of that svs sub will also have major impact on its response fyi.

 

if you hate it now move it closer to a corner and start smiling

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Ok, I understand what you're saying and if that's what it is then I can deal with it.  I just don't want to figure out if this isn't the sub for me after I'm out of my return window.  I'm not unhappy with it for the TV and movies I've watched so far, it's just music.  It definitely kills the lower frequencies the 12SW couldn't touch.  Another part of the issue may also be that lately  I haven't been able to watch TV or movies or listen to music at the volume I would like to because of the baby.  He was just fine with loud noises and stuff since he was born but all of the sudden loud noises have started scaring the crap out of him so I've had to keep it down a bit.  I intend to play with it more when I'm able to.

 

Let me ask you this though.  I have an Arc PS8 DSP in my car and I haven't even touched the equalizers at all yet but the bass in the Satriani song I mentioned has similar volume like it does on the 12SW.  Why would that be if the DSP is trying to "fix" it?  Just a different type of DSP?

 

I had it in a corner when I first set it up and it sounded boomy so I moved out of the corner (I'm wondering now if maybe the phase had anything to do with it since I didn't change that until after I moved it to where it is now).  Now I have it on the front wall still but between the right front speaker and the entertainment center.

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