Othorn...

[uams]

On ‎23‎-‎12‎-‎2017 at 4:57 AM, ClaudeJ1 said:

I own one and it's the most "musical" sub I've ever heard. I think the "sauce" you speak of is mostly the B&C Driver in conjunction with a great design from Ricci. I just did a Hornresp of the OThorn with the new, 21" driver from B&C (4 1/2" Voice coil instead of 6") , which is $200 cheaper than it's older sibling ($500 vs. $700 for the one we have now) and it's even smoother.

 

@ClaudeJ1

 

Is the use if the B&C 21DS115 unit in the OThorn "approved" by Ricci? I don't want to question your Hornresp calculation, but would like a bearing on whether using another driver than the one the design is built around is OK...

[ClaudeJ1]

2 hours ago, uams said:

 

@ClaudeJ1

 

Is the use if the B&C 21DS115 unit in the OThorn "approved" by Ricci? I don't want to question your Hornresp calculation, but would like a bearing on whether using another driver than the one the design is built around is OK...

You can Email him and ask. He has his own forum too.

[uams]

On ‎23‎-‎12‎-‎2017 at 5:07 AM, ClaudeJ1 said:

You can get one built for $1200 from a guy in Tennessee if you use the newer, less expensive, driver from Parts Express..........B&C 21DS115. PM me for his number if interested. You will never need another sub if you use it smack in between your LaScalas.

 

@ClaudeJ1

 

Is using the OThorn "smack in between your [insert speakers; in my case Simon Mears Audio Uccello's]" a vital requirement to your ears? My listening space hardly allows for a horn sub to be placed between my main horns, and so it would likely have to be placed against one of the side walls. Would you advice against this? I'd intend to low pass the sub just over 60Hz, so directionality shouldn't be all too obvious. 

 

I'd appreciate on your opinion on this, and to what extend you've experimented with placement of the OThorn.

 

On a side note: do you have firsthand experience with "lilmike's" Cinema F20 horn sub or the THT, and how they compare to the OThorn?

 

 

[ClaudeJ1]

3 hours ago, uams said:

 

@ClaudeJ1

 

Is using the OThorn "smack in between your [insert speakers; in my case Simon Mears Audio Uccello's]" a vital requirement to your ears? My listening space hardly allows for a horn sub to be placed between my main horns, and so it would likely have to be placed against one of the side walls. Would you advice against this? I'd intend to low pass the sub just over 60Hz, so directionality shouldn't be all too obvious. 

 

I'd appreciate on your opinion on this, and to what extend you've experimented with placement of the OThorn.

 

On a side note: do you have firsthand experience with "lilmike's" Cinema F20 horn sub or the THT, and how they compare to the OThorn?

 

 

They both go lower than the OT horn but not as powerful. I have a Danley TH-50 (used to have 3), an OThorn, and 2 THT LP's.

 

[uams]

1 hour ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

They both go lower than the OT horn but not as powerful. I have a Danley TH-50 (used to have 3), an OThorn, and 2 THT LP's.

 

 

That's a lot of sub capacity. Does all that go into one room, divided out, or are some of them (in turn) inactive? 

 

My listening room is only some 1,900 cubic foot, and while a pair would've been preferable I assume a single horn sub a la F20/THT would be plenty of capacity, and yet, to whom is "plenty"? Word on the actual bass quality from the OThorn has me intrigued though, insanity be damned...

[CECAA850]

Build an F-20 and listen to it for a while.  If you feel you need more then build another.

[ClaudeJ1]

19 hours ago, uams said:

 

That's a lot of sub capacity. Does all that go into one room, divided out, or are some of them (in turn) inactive? 

 

My listening room is only some 1,900 cubic foot, and while a pair would've been preferable I assume a single horn sub a la F20/THT would be plenty of capacity, and yet, to whom is "plenty"? Word on the actual bass quality from the OThorn has me intrigued though, insanity be damned...

You can't go wrong with any of them but I would get two. One center front and one center rear to tame the room modes.

[uams]

On ‎28‎-‎03‎-‎2018 at 8:37 PM, ClaudeJ1 said:

You can't go wrong with any of them but I would get two. One center front and one center rear to tame the room modes.

 

The cost saving of building the F20 (compared to the THT and others) is likely to settle this, why I may just have two F20's build - if all goes well during the summer. It'll be overkill in my 1,900 cu ft. listening room, but bass distribution will be smoother and more even. 

[ClaudeJ1]

5 hours ago, uams said:

 

The cost saving of building the F20 (compared to the THT and others) is likely to settle this, why I may just have two F20's build - if all goes well during the summer. It'll be overkill in my 1,900 cu ft. listening room, but bass distribution will be smoother and more even. 

I'm sure the F20 performs as well as the THT. I can't say 100 percent since I never built or owned one, but the design seems very similar. It it's cheaper and easier to build, then it's probably the way to go.

[SWL]

 
It'll be overkill in my 1,900 cu ft. listening room, but bass distribution will be smoother and more even. 

Nothing wrong with some additional headroom. Nothing at all....


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[CECAA850]

1 hour ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

I'm sure the F20 performs as well as the THT. I can't say 100 percent since I never built or owned one, but the design seems very similar. It it's cheaper and easier to build, then it's probably the way to go.

Specs are viritually identical and they use the same driver.  The F-20 goes 1 or 2 hz lower and is infinitely easier to build.

[uams]

Thanks, folks, for the encouragement. 

 

The deciding factor to me is the easier (i.e.: cheaper) build, being that I'm going to have a cabinet maker build the F20's to me. He told me it might even be a bit cheaper building two F20's in 18mm ply than a single THT in 12mm ditto, and then the thought of a pair of F20's suddenly becomes very appealing.  

 

Knowing what (all things being more or less equal) a dual sub setup is capable of compared to a lone one, that choice, if economically and practically feasible, is rather easy. The bass becomes enveloping and present in a way going dual that's really quite addictive once you get a knack for it. And, as has been just pointed out, more headroom is only a good thing.

 

Initially I never thought horn subs would be a viable solution in my listening room due to relative size constraints, but once the sidewall option presented itself, not least duals on opposing side walls, the picture changed. Thing is though, I've never heard a horn sub in a domestic environment, and this explains my eager to have people in the know elaborate on what is perhaps a given to them: why horn subs? Why are they preferable to some and not others? I know; there's the advantage of sensitivity, less cone movement for a given SPL, typically lower distortion, overall loudness capabilities, and though horn subs may be big I often get the sense they can out-muscle larger numbers of more expensive direct radiating subs with bigger drive units.

 

What I'm mostly after though is the elusive qualities, at least going by the challenge of articulating them, that may come from a horn sub driver's particular coupling to the air and ultimately the room, and its sense of, say, ease and relaxedness of reproduction? Obviously I can't know that, only guess, but if my all-horn main speakers is anything to go by I may have a bearing as to what to expect, even though I'm quite sure I'm in for a surprise no matter what.  

 

The goal for sub 20Hz reproduction into single digits has me confounded insofar the audible bass range and its actual audible characteristics become secondary. Bass is hardly bass, and when the focus is <20Hz something tells me there may potentially be consequences in the frequencies above. I'm saying this to counter the sentiment that blindly points out horn subs are less proficient below 20Hz, an infra-range that has accumulated quite the following. As a sealed sub my current SVS SB16-Ultra may go deeper and touch 10Hz in-room, but it will be interesting to trade that with what a pair of horn subs are capable of...

 

 

[AHall]

Anyone have an opinion on how the Othorn compares to the kpt-1802?

 

@ClaudeJ1

[ClaudeJ1]

Never owned an 1802, but I own the OThorn and it is a beast of a subwoofer from about 28-110 Hz. That 21" B&C driver with the 6" Voice Coil, Neo Magnets, heavy duty frame, and 4,000 watt power handling makes it a heavyweight in the solid bass department.

[DrWho]

12 hours ago, AHall said:

Anyone have an opinion on how the Othorn compares to the kpt-1802?

On paper the Othorn has more output, and has a smaller cabinet. I don't know about low level distortion but at higher outputs the Othorn should win.

It'd be interesting to put a better driver in the KPT-1802 and compare against the Othorn. I would expect the ports on the 1802 to be the limiting factor.

 

Either way, I'd love to hear a side-by-side shootout. The KPT-1802 is a better engineered design from a business perspective, but still costs more than the DIY approach.

 

Honestly though, due to how our ears work at lower frequencies, I think it'd be difficult to tell the difference. The 1802 probably digs a touch deeper in a real world home application. The annoying thing with tapped horns is they don't benefit from room gain in the same way as other designs.

[AHall]

I’d love to hear them next to each other and I’m sure many others would as well. I think I’d rather have the 20hz performance than I would the little extra output. I don’t think it necessary to go above the 140db mark much in the home setting. With minimal time I was able to get flat to 22hz and -3db at 20hz. Around -10db at 18hz. 

 

Im not sure how those numbers translate compared to other more premium performing subs, but for movies it is absolutely violent sounding and a bit nauseating sometimes. 

 

Music of course is a bit overwhelming. Even with jubes.